dev1024 - healing magic

[Quetzacoatl]

You know, I keep hearing about the whole cureskin argument when backing up WHM in its curing power over RDM, and let me say...

If RDM were to get Cure 5, who cares if they can even get a stoneskin effect or not as long as they have the MP regeneration to support the person's HP bar? What would there be to worry about as long as they have 11MP/Refresh in both gear, AF3+2 Legs and Refresh 2 Spell, along with the extra Minikin Monstrosity Atma inside Abyssea (an additional 10 MP refresh)? That's 21 MP/Tic if you don't have a Subligar with Refresh+1. Then it would be 22 MP/Tic, and you would already have regained half of the MP cost of Cure 5 in just three seconds over the base recast time Cure 5 has. In 6 seconds flat that's approximately 132 MP returned.

I should also add that this would take /SCH's MP conservation to newer heights with Light Arts up and SCH's Conserve MP Trait running through as a Subjob. That's 33 MP (rounded down) shaved off when it kicks in. So effectively you could almost NEVER run out of MP spamming Cure 5.

Not to mention, with the cherry on top, Atma of the Rescuer would stack on top of a decent Cure Potency set with that Cure Potency+10%, on top of a Fast Cast effect (8~10%) to keep the target's remaining amount of HP topped long enough to, again, keep the MP Flow going. And IF we were to get our enfeebles to work come the next update, we'd already be doing what WHMs were already doing in Abyssea with Tier 1 Paralyze and Slow. We'd just be in their shoes again, just with a load of Refresh on our backs. =\

Oh, and don't tell me Cure 5 will be just as good outside for RDM. Cure 4's there for that, and Cure 6 to WHM is Cure 5 for RDM in that instance- It would be far too powerful to even be MP-efficient before Abyssea.

Square-Enix, I would advise you to look into the regen line of spells and create something based off a mix of Cures and Regen for Red Mage. Kind of like what you did with Helix/Kaustra, except for Enhancing Magic.

[SpankWustler]

So effectively you could almost NEVER run out of MP spamming Cure 5.

Inside Abyssea, this is true of pretty much any job casting pretty much anything. Well, excluding a Dark Knight casting Impact or a Black Mage cycling through expensive proc spells as fast as possible.

I agree that giving each job with support elements a unique solution to the issue of "People be losing HP, brosef!" would be best, though. White Mage has brute-force HP restoration, Scholar could have Humpty Hump's Healing Helix, and Red Mage could have Stoneskin II and some other enhancing magic to prevent HP loss in the first place.

They could all work together to heal people optimally when in a party or alliance and in their free time they could form Captain Planet.

For something that's generally difficult and requires 6+ people to do efficiently, such as VoidWatch, White Mage being the only viable healer works fine. Having exactly one healer that works in Abyssea, which is very laid-back content otherwise, is kind of lame.

Other jobs receiving Cure V would be a really boring solution and far from my first choice, but I'd be okay with it compared to the current situation.

[cidbahamut]

HoT spells would be a great way to deal with this issue instead of giving Rdm cure 5. That way whm is still hands down the best healer regardless of mp conservation and rdm can now some what keep ppl alive.

Except not really. When a monster swings and puts people in the red and you need them back up to at least yellow right away, Cure IV and even a Regen IV isn't going to cut it. The only way healing over time could make up the deficiency is if it was so monstrously powerful that it had White Mages in a fit over us stealing their Regen thunder. I'm talking hundreds of hp per tic, lasts more than a couple seconds kind of healing over time. I'm not sure that would be at all permissible from a game balance perspective.

You know, I keep hearing about the whole cureskin argument when backing up WHM in its curing power over RDM, and let me say...

If RDM were to get Cure 5, who cares if they can even get a stoneskin effect or not as long as they have the MP regeneration to support the person's HP bar? What would there be to worry about as long as they have 11MP/Refresh in both gear, AF3+2 Legs and Refresh 2 Spell, along with the extra Minikin Monstrosity Atma inside Abyssea (an additional 10 MP refresh)? That's 21 MP/Tic if you don't have a Subligar with Refresh+1. Then it would be 22 MP/Tic, and you would already have regained half of the MP cost of Cure 5 in just three seconds over the base recast time Cure 5 has. In 6 seconds flat that's approximately 132 MP returned.

One tic is equal to three seconds.

Please don't use incorrect math to confuse people like this.

You're only going to get back at most 44 mp over those six seconds, and that's only if you don't cast anything else during that time.

[Reaux]

Except not really. When a monster swings and puts people in the red and you need them back up to at least yellow right away, Cure IV and even a Regen IV isn't going to cut it. The only way healing over time could make up the deficiency is if it was so monstrously powerful that it had White Mages in a fit over us stealing their Regen thunder. I'm talking hundreds of hp per tic, lasts more than a couple seconds kind of healing over time. I'm not sure that would be at all permissible from a game balance perspective.


One tic is equal to three seconds.

Please don't use incorrect math to confuse people like this.

You're only going to get back at most 44 mp over those six seconds, and that's only if you don't cast anything else during that time.

RDM and SCH are support classes get over it. They were never made to be just as good healers or nukers as their respective counter parts. Their strength comes from which subs they choose and how they support the party as a whole. So youre Cure IV is weaker...you have 2 choices use a Helix to make your spell stronger, or keep Regen-ga up on party members so the WHM can focus on other buffs and supporting the tank.

As RDM you can refresh the WHM to let them use higher Cure's in quick succession while you top people off they can''t get to immediately. But this is all providing you want those job to be healers and forget their other abilities and duties. Because certain pieces of equipment give bonus if aligned with the right weather, yay for helix. SCH can also help tanks keep hate by increasing emnity gain. RDM is still the only job with Tier 2 enfeebles that can land consistently on HNMs and has an easy and simple way to change a mobs resistance with Enspells.

[Zatias]

RDM and SCH are support classes get over it.

Yes they are.

Cure V should be handed out to RDM and SCH. It still wont replace WHM, it will make them comfortable substitutes when the WHM is incapacitated = good support. Aren't RDM and SCH supposed to be supportive? Cure 4 spam is counter-supportive in a way. It yanks enmity between players and over time you will find the mob taking an interest to eating your face. What's that? Now you have to waste MP on the RDM or SCH to heal them.

If you WHMs still think that Cure V is your only hold on the top of the hill then learn to play WHM. And RDM and SCH who think they will be healing only or a "ghetto whm" you wont be, especially if they fix enfeebling magic vs NMs.

[SpankWustler]

RDM and SCH are support classes get over it. They were never made to be just as good healers or nukers as their respective counter parts. Their strength comes from which subs they choose and how they support the party as a whole. So youre Cure IV is weaker...you have 2 choices use a Helix to make your spell stronger, or keep Regen-ga up on party members so the WHM can focus on other buffs and supporting the tank.

As RDM you can refresh the WHM to let them use higher Cure's in quick succession while you top people off they can''t get to immediately. But this is all providing you want those job to be healers and forget their other abilities and duties. Because certain pieces of equipment give bonus if aligned with the right weather, yay for helix. SCH can also help tanks keep hate by increasing emnity gain. RDM is still the only job with Tier 2 enfeebles that can land consistently on HNMs and has an easy and simple way to change a mobs resistance with Enspells.

You don't understand what Red Mage and Scholar are actually capable of, the potency of their spells and abilities, or even what Scholar's basic abilities are called, and for that reason neither one should become a viable (but still second best) healer? Okay!

Hyrist, I do agree with your idea of how things should ideally work.

I don't think that's the case right now, though. With adequate MP restoration, I'm confident I could out-pace two or even three hybrid jobs working together on my single White Mage. If things go to a dark and unhappy place, casting Cure V and Cure VI back to back restores the HP of two people within about four seconds, and gives them 300-400 HP stoneskin.

I'd need both a Bard and Red Mage to reach that level in Voidwatch, and that feels pretty much right. The "best" healer should work best for an activity with difficulty as it's main draw, similar to how the "best" tank works best.

I find it off that healing works similarly in Abyssea, though, given how laid back the activity is otherwise. If it weren't for procs being needed, you could melee everything in Abyssea to death with Red Mages, White Mages, and Bards and not experience too much difficulty. White Mage being so far above other healers for an otherwise lackadaisical activity doesn't feel right to me.

[Quetzacoatl]

One tic is equal to three seconds.

Please don't use incorrect math to confuse people like this.

You're only going to get back at most 44 mp over those six seconds, and that's only if you don't cast anything else during that time.

Gah, touché on that one. My point is though, the target's HP will be able to be sustained long enough with cure 5 to be able to refresh that MP back, including the conserve MP proc and light arts savings, considering your tank is decent enough to sustain himself for that long.

Therefore, with Slow II and Paralyze II in effect, we would still retain the mana battery title for curing. This is also considering you're doing nothing else- just Haste, Temper and Cure 5, over and over and over. That shit is boring, you can count me out of it.