dev1024 - healing magic

[Bubeeky]

not disagreeing there cid, but that's how it is....I for one would be thrilled for rdm and sch to be able to contribute to the healing scene...every other MMO has 3-4 healers easily, but each one brings something unique to the table that the others don't...that's what I'd like to see here, where sch and rdm would get their own unique brand of cures, not just a copy/paste of whm cure V and I think that's what SE is trying to work towards. Besides, SE already said that sch and rdm would not be getting cure V right now, and that they were looking into other options, so it really shouldn't have surprised anyone....

[cidbahamut]

Well the other options generally consist of pre-emptive damage mitigation or healing over time, both of which White Mage has a stranglehold on at the moment. So unless SE is willing to radically alter that, I don't see there being any healing options other than White Mage as we make our way to the 99 cap. It's an issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later. Doesn't necessarily have to be with Cure V, but that is the most easily recognizable solution to the problem.

Work with me here, how do you see things playing out if Cure V remains exclusive to WHM?

[Bubeeky]

well, one thing that EQ2 did that I liked was reactive cures, where it worked like a buff, and everytime the target got hit, the buff healed them a little bit...sch/rdm could also take on aspects of a time mage, and master the heal over time spells...seeing how sch's thing is spell manipulation, they could also combine the lesser cures with something like a regen effect or something, I dunno...

could also take sch in the route of combat general, since the RP concept is a strategist and give 'em JA's that gave the entire pt a regen/regain/refresh, or give them JA's that were modeled after battle formations some how, to give the pt some kind of bonuses

[DebbieGibson]

Easy fix is to just rework cure formulas so healing skill has a bigger effect on potency

[Hyrist]

Easy fix is to just rework cure formulas so healing skill has a bigger effect on potency

It would have to be pretty severe for a smaller amount of difference.

RDM/SCH or anyone /sch alone starts off at a base B(-?) capped White Magic skill, then you can add cure skill gear that SCH and RDM both have decent amounts in, not to mention the cure potency amount accessible to them.

The problem doesn't lie necessarily in that sort of regulation, as much as it is the vast imbalance between DD/Melee jobs and cure/support jobs. Meaning those support jobs get shoved into the smallest number of slots possible no matter what. If you make RDM or scholar a competent healer on top of whatever else they offer, then WHM ceases to become worthwhile, because curing is the BULK of what they offer, where as RDM and Scholar have their respective nukes buffs and debuffs to fall back on or assist additionally on top of being the designated cure bi-... bot.

If they're not, and the focus is instead placed on making sure their unique contributions are viable enough to possibly bump a DD off the roster depending on what's available, then their healing could be brought up to a decent enough level where it does not outshine what they're supposed to offer as a whole, yet can support or take over LIGHT loads.

However, as it stands now, SCH and RDM can still handle light curing loads, so there's no need for Cure V. And if their contributions help mitigate overall damage, it'll likely stay that way. And in questionable situations, it allows for jobs like Dancers and Blue Mages to shine in their support aspects.

So really there's not much of a strong argument for giving out the spell, except for the desire to bump WHM off the throne as the go-to healer.

[cidbahamut]

So really there's not much of a strong argument for giving out the spell, except for the desire to bump WHM off the throne as the go-to healer.

The problem isn't that it's the go-to healer, the problem is that it's the only healer.

[Hyrist]

The problem isn't that it's the go-to healer, the problem is that it's the only healer.

Only SOLO healer.

Cure loads can be manged by multiple mages/jobs of varying types who have cure capacities.

Stack some MP on a war/whm...

And you wonder why I ask for buffs in the melee and buffing department? In light curing load situations RDM offers little to the table, buffs in both of these aspects would correct that easily.

Right now you may bring a single red mage per alliance if the monster isn't immune to enfeebles, but scholars have to compete with specialists when they focus on healing or nuking because they get incrementally worse as they swap between the two.

Scholar already seems to be getting a better line of unique spells, particularly in the 2hr department. Not only do I expect our enfeebling game to improve for more difficult monsters, and that Scholar get a more unique set of spells to assit with, that's part of my flat out demands in them filling the order they put out with the Manifesto.

Honestly, I have the same policy for us main healing, as people do for Red Mages melee. When it matters, you're not supposed to be the one doing it over a specalist. Only difference is, because you CAN do it safely, you can help out. But I would expect the main role of a RDM would be to support with buffs and enfeeble, tossing out back up cures, status cures, and nukes when available to do so.

But there's no reason to expect RDM to solo heal difficult situations. Either split the duty or invite a WHM and have us support it. We have a specialty and we should be doing that, it just needs to be improved upon.

[Ahrana]

Cure loads can be manged by multiple mages/jobs of varying types who have cure capacities.

Or you could drop all the dead weight, get a whm, bard, and a few DD's and kill twice as many NM's in the same amount of time.

I haven't played anything but white mage when I go out with my LS in over a month simply because it's the backbone of everything end game right now. Once you have a white mage and a few solid DD's you can fill the rest of your alliance with scrubs and window lickers and still be effective.

[Eth]

I support the OP. Right now, RDM is dead as far as abyssea is concerned. Not just second choice, but dead. Tripple-atma powered WHM is all the support that's needed for most situations, and if it isn't enough, then you take two of them. But there is no situation that calls for RDM anymore.

The idea that giving RDM Cure V would de-throne WHM as the most desired and principal choice for healer is just not plausible. Lack of cureskin and cure potency gear would make RDM Cure V gimped compared to WHM cure V. And RDM wouldn't have Cure VI in case a tank requires an urgent, large cure right after you've already cast Cure V.

[Ahrana]

This is the problem:

However, as it stands now, WAR/WHM can still handle light curing loads, so there's no need for Cure V. And if their contributions help mitigate overall damage, it'll likely stay that way. And in questionable situations, it allows for jobs like Dancers and Blue Mages to shine in their support aspects.

Stack some MP on a war/whm, and he has the same tools that red mages and scholars have for healing. When SE states that they're trying to make all jobs viable for end game, but they end up making one job completely irreplaceable (whm), and another job a juggernaut (blm), how are red mages and scholars supposed to compete for end game party slots? Right now you may bring a single red mage per alliance if the monster isn't immune to enfeebles, but scholars have to compete with specialists when they focus on healing or nuking because they get incrementally worse as they swap between the two.