[Dev1024] - Job-Adjustments - War.

[TheBarrister]

Because enough noobs have posted on here about how much more powerful a decked out WAR is doing than their full aurore <insert job> and their panties are in a wad?

Because SE actually listens to most of the people who have no idea what they are talking about instead of following older forums that actually have an idea of what this game was like in 2003-2009, instead of the post-TOAUers?

Because if your job isn't on the top, the correct fix is to nerf someone else.

Don't really care though, I'll play any of my 4 jobs because I like them.

Seriously, WAR is a pure DD. All WAR can do is do damage. Can't call a pet, can't summon, can't have a freaky little lizard flying above head, can't heal HP with martial moves or counter moves, can't evade, can't go emo and start draining hp/tp/etc., can't do a billion different steps to dance around a mob. WAR does one thing. Hit the mob. That's it. But other people who have a favorite job will always hate and expect to be able to do perfect damage in addition to all the other things they can do. You want WAR damage, play WAR.

[TheBarrister]

I'll trade you, I'll take Ukko's Furry, Berserk, Blood Rage, Retaliation... and... you can have Bully and despoil :3

(Also, There might be a second part? Either that or WAR's update got pushed back? Its true they should have gotten maybe something, They don't really /need/ anything but its always nice to see new toys)

It's true we don't need anything but if you want all that stuff from WAR, just swap to WAR. If I want Bully and Despoil, I'll swap to my THF...

[StingRay104]

Because enough noobs have posted on here about how much more powerful a decked out WAR is doing than their full aurore <insert job> and their panties are in a wad?

Because SE actually listens to most of the people who have no idea what they are talking about instead of following older forums that actually have an idea of what this game was like in 2003-2009, instead of the post-TOAUers?

Because if your job isn't on the top, the correct fix is to nerf someone else.

Don't really care though, I'll play any of my 4 jobs because I like them.

Seriously, WAR is a pure DD. All WAR can do is do damage. Can't call a pet, can't summon, can't have a freaky little lizard flying above head, can't heal HP with martial moves or counter moves, can't evade, can't go emo and start draining hp/tp/etc., can't do a billion different steps to dance around a mob. WAR does one thing. Hit the mob. That's it. But other people who have a favorite job will always hate and expect to be able to do perfect damage in addition to all the other things they can do. You want WAR damage, play WAR.

Funny, originally war was the jack of all trades in the melee department. Hell war was expected to tank until rotz came out and even then war was an acceptable tank. War should be great at damage and great at defense, just not both at the same time, and it shouldn't be the best. Most those jobs you mentioned in there still have tons of issues with how they work. Pets, summons, flying lizards, drains hp/tp/etc, dances around mobs, ya all this sounds great on paper, yet even super fully decked out dd's can't come close to war in damage. Hell the concept of DRK is that they nearly kill themselves to deal super spike damage, yet a war with no personal risk whatsoever can deal more damage and faster. The pet jobs even if you include their friends damage with their own still can't get close to war. The reason people are upset is their is no balance, and until there is there will be lots of complaints. I for one am glad to see SE finally speak about wars damage as an adjustment because when a job can constantly hit 10k ws's in abyssea w/o brew, then there is a serious problem with balance.

[Leonlionheart]

Funny, originally war was the jack of all trades in the melee department. Hell war was expected to tank until rotz came out and even then war was an acceptable tank. War should be great at damage and great at defense, just not both at the same time, and it shouldn't be the best. Most those jobs you mentioned in there still have tons of issues with how they work. Pets, summons, flying lizards, drains hp/tp/etc, dances around mobs, ya all this sounds great on paper, yet even super fully decked out dd's can't come close to war in damage. Hell the concept of DRK is that they nearly kill themselves to deal super spike damage, yet a war with no personal risk whatsoever can deal more damage and faster. The pet jobs even if you include their friends damage with their own still can't get close to war. The reason people are upset is their is no balance, and until there is there will be lots of complaints. I for one am glad to see SE finally speak about wars damage as an adjustment because when a job can constantly hit 10k ws's in abyssea w/o brew, then there is a serious problem with balance.

No one can ever hit 10k consistently, you're delusional beyond belief.

Outside at this moment WAR is only on par with, if that, SAM, who we all know to be SE's little spoiled brat.

Inside? Who cares. MNK+WHM can duo everything, so who gives two craps about what jobs come to events when even PUP can pop out constant 5k's (disregarding the proc factor).

To top it off considering the masses of NA didn't have a version w/o rotz, WAR was never really a great tank. Sure it could tank, but it still can. And so can SAM. And DRK. And WHM for fuck's sake. Defensively, you're playing the game wrong if you really argue that it matters much outside of VW proccing.

[Arcon]

I hate when people bring up WAR tank, because it was never good at it. It could tank, yes, just like any melee could, it still doesn't mean it was any good at it. WAR was never a jack of all trades, as I pointed out a few times before. People only think that because of Defender and some of the WAR AF1, which creates the illusion that WAR can tank, with all that VIT and Enmity on it. If that was all that it takes, you have a better shot at BLM tanks, because Mana Wall does a lot more for defense than Defender could in a million years.

WAR was never a jack of all trades, it was just good "ish" with different kinds of weapons, a concept which SE buried for good, because they basically removed WAR from any new weapons that were released which aren't an axe or great axe, like the Magian trial weapons.

[Babekeke]

I hate when people bring up WAR tank, because it was never good at it. It could tank, yes, just like any melee could, it still doesn't mean it was any good at it. WAR was never a jack of all trades, as I pointed out a few times before. People only think that because of Defender and some of the WAR AF1, which creates the illusion that WAR can tank, with all that VIT and Enmity on it. If that was all that it takes, you have a better shot at BLM tanks, because Mana Wall does a lot more for defense than Defender could in a million years.

Well, someone was tanking when the game was first released, before nin and pld were available...

WAR was never a jack of all trades, it was just good "ish" with different kinds of weapons, a concept which SE buried for good, because they basically removed WAR from any new weapons that were released which aren't an axe or great axe, like the Magian trial weapons.

Moepapa Mace says hi. Not to mention Sagasinger, Twilight knife, ToM GS are about the only ones WAR has been excluded from, Draca Cousa and Quint spear, Only a couple of 76+ bows, scythes and staves that war can use, but that's about it.
Overall, an unfounded statement. It should have just read "SE didn't let WAR do all of the ToM weapons Q.Q"

[Walsh]

I tanked pretty much all my parties back when the game came out in NA. I still remember the timing of Utsu: Ichi on crabs to this day, how many "bounces" in their animation in Kuftal and Boyahda tree you have to wait to cast without being interrupted. And even when we got a paladin (and especially when we got a ninja) I tanked most of the fights anyway. Warrior has hardly changed since the game came out. Maybe war was never a viable tank for something big like Fafnir (although I had a few moments of glory back in the day), and square has changed a lot to help other jobs since, but for regular XP there's a reason why eventually everyone realized that inviting 4 wars was the way to get your merits.

[Arcon]

Well, someone was tanking when the game was first released, before nin and pld were available...

Yes, WAR and MNK. Didn't you read what I said?

Moepapa Mace says hi. Not to mention Sagasinger, Twilight knife, ToM GS are about the only ones WAR has been excluded from, Draca Cousa and Quint spear, Only a couple of 76+ bows, scythes and staves that war can use, but that's about it.
Overall, an unfounded statement. It should have just read "SE didn't let WAR do all of the ToM weapons Q.Q"

I said "basically", which meant all but those five examples you mentioned, four of which WAR wouldn't find much use for (Quint Spear being the example for staggering mobs). And no, I don't care for any other weapons, I'm quite happy with my GA, considering 99% of all ToM weapons are borderline useless anyway. I'm just saying it's groundless to call WAR a jack of all trades, because even if it used to be once (which it also wasn't, really), it sure as hell not now. WAR is a DD, a Great Axe DD. That's its identity. Another hint that SE agrees with me, is that they switched from defensive stats on AF1, to more offensive stats on AF2, to exclusively offensive stats on AF3.

[Babekeke]

Personally, I think that the definition of a job being a 'jack of all trades' is the variety of SJs that you see people using for it. There are very few that I haven't seen people using on WAR. I've personally seen peiople tanking on war (generally in pre-60 parties) with the following SJs: whm rdm nin sam mnk rng dnc pld and I'm sure that it's been done with SCH and BLU too.
WAR has C+, C and C- in shield, evasion and parrying respectively, which certainly at the lower levels is very helpful for tanking (assuming that the player has them at or near cap, of course), though the gap of course grows considerably as the level rises.
For DDing, mnk, thf, rng, sam, drg, nin are all situationally good SJs, with better benefits at some levels than others, of course (I personally like pup as a SJ pre-30 as long as you're killing EP-DC mobs so the automaton can hit sufficiently; this is for any job, not just war).
Lastly, it's very rare, but bst brd cor can be subbed without really impacting the war too much, though I admit, I've never seen these be subbed. WAR would suffer less than most by doing so though.

In short, WAR IS a very versatile job.

[Leonlionheart]

Personally, I think that the definition of a job being a 'jack of all trades' is the variety of SJs that you see people using for it. There are very few that I haven't seen people using on WAR. I've personally seen peiople tanking on war (generally in pre-60 parties) with the following SJs: whm rdm nin sam mnk rng dnc pld and I'm sure that it's been done with SCH and BLU too.
WAR has C+, C and C- in shield, evasion and parrying respectively, which certainly at the lower levels is very helpful for tanking (assuming that the player has them at or near cap, of course), though the gap of course grows considerably as the level rises.
For DDing, mnk, thf, rng, sam, drg, nin are all situationally good SJs, with better benefits at some levels than others, of course (I personally like pup as a SJ pre-30 as long as you're killing EP-DC mobs so the automaton can hit sufficiently; this is for any job, not just war).
Lastly, it's very rare, but bst brd cor can be subbed without really impacting the war too much, though I admit, I've never seen these be subbed. WAR would suffer less than most by doing so though.

In short, WAR IS a very versatile job.

In the way WAR is versitile, so is SAM, DRK, MNK, PUP, WHM, BLM, RDM, DNC, NIN, PLD, BLU, THF then

SAM can tank and DD, MNK can tank and DD, PUP can tank and DD, WHM can tank and DD, BLM can tank and DD, RDM can tank and DD, DNC can tank and DD, NIN can tank and DD, PLD can tank and DD, BLU can tank and DD, THF can tank and DD, and I'm sure there are plenty that slip my mind.

So why is WAR singled out as a jack of all trades? SAM can use shields too yo