[Dev1024] - Job-Adjustments - War.

[Neisan_Quetz]

There is no weak defensive mechanism. You were just a terrible tank and didn't realize it.

[Retsujo]

Of course I was a terrible tank, I never disputed that. :P

I'll reiterate for you, since you don't seem to understand: Warriors are not the best tanks, but they're better at tanking than other "non-tank" jobs.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Bloodtanking bar Brovura, not really (of course, the only requirements you need to clear to tank are 'sufficiently hold hate','not die' and 'not overtax support so that you do die'). Damage mitigation... worse than Sam/Nin/Mnk/Prd/Drk prenerf at minimum. Actually, they can fulltime TE/Seigen now without losing as much damage as war, so they're probably better off.

[Leonlionheart]

I never get tired of seeing this strategy, forget all the facts and only use the ones I want you to use. In all honesty any job can tank from 75-95 so your whole basis is without merit. Given all this if you actually compare defensive capabilities then you'd realize war has far more defensive capabilities than other jobs, but they cause you to take away from your broken damage so why bother, its not like the mobs are gonna be alive long enough for it to matter and when it comes to hnms your gonna have pld nin or thf tank it so just focus on pure damage. Anyways I grow tired of trying to educate people in this game, seeing as how SE has decided to completely dick with it instead of actually do the thing everyone wants, IE bring every other dd up to wars level and make them all relevent. Have fun with your endless bs about how you think the game works.

What is this I don't even

[Leonlionheart]

Of course I was a terrible tank, I never disputed that. :P

I'll reiterate for you, since you don't seem to understand: Warriors are not the best tanks, but they're better at tanking than other "non-tank" jobs.

Let's see here

WAR: Defender, Shield Skill, PDT gear
MNK: Counterstance, Perfect Counter, Dodge, Guarding, Evasion skill, PDT gear
WHM: Protect, Self Cures, Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil, Shield Skill, PDT gear
RDM: Protect, Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil, Self Cures, Shield Skill PDT gear
BLM: Stun, Drain, Ice Spikes, Manawall
THF: Literally more evasion than possible on any other job, PDT gear
PLD: Everything
DRK: Dread Spikes, Drain, Drain II, Stun, Weapon Bash, PDT gear
BST: Pet, Pet PDT gear, PDT gear
RNG: Actually has less defense than WAR, ranged attacks so shouldn't take damage, PDT gear
BRD: Scherzo, Minne, Paeon, PDT gear, plethora of useless, yet still on the defensive side, spells
SMN: Pet, Stoneskin, Blink, Self Cures, Earthen Armor, PDT gear
SAM: Seigan, Third Eye, PDT gear
NIN: Utsusemi, High evasion, PDT gear
DRG: Healing Breath, PDT gear (possibly less defensive than WAR, but enmity- on jumps makes up for it most of the time)
BLU: OH GOD THE LIST IS SO LONG, PDT gear
COR: Less defensive than WAR the same way RNG is, PDT gear
SCH: Same as RDM, without Phalanx, with situational other advantages, PDT gear
DNC: Waltz, Samba, High Evasion, PDT gear

3 Jobs that shouldn't be taking hate for extended periods of time have less defensive capabilities than WAR.

I've probably missed some things, and HP values I haven't mentioned which sway things on who should be tanking, but literally every job can outlast WAR, besides what I've mentioned.

Again, 1~75 doesn't matter in any way anymore with book burns/abyssea.

[Economizer]

Let's see here

Well, in a party situation, I'd prefer that a WAR tanks over a White Mage, but since I'd like to derail this pointless back and forth I'll ask again...

What do you want for Warrior?

I think when we start discussing this we can actually talk about real job adjustments rather then whether or not Warrior is a tank or not.

[Leonlionheart]

WAR needs nothing in terms of offense. It's the top DD, and it's always been fluctuating between first and second place. It only really lacks in the defensive aspects when comparing it to SAM, which is the only job that it really can be compared to.

So WAR needs a defensive ability that can prevent damage so that it can stay on the mob and retaliate. Bravura and a good PDT set is kind of the only way it can stand up for entire fights at the moment (VW, everything else doesn't really matter since anyone can do it without dying.) Even good Bravura WAR's die too.

On another note, hopefully they are nerfing Restraint so that they can actually give us something in terms of updates that will knock SAM of it's high horse again

[tyrantsyn]

I agree that war needs a new defensive option out side of gear. Some reasonable of course. A - DT trait would be nice or JA that would would grant it for a time.

[Leonlionheart]

I think something along the lines of a Sentinel type ability, as in reduces damage taken severely for a short amount of time, but stops you from auto-attacking (but retaliation can still proc) would be perfect.

Can't stress the retaliation proc enough, as without it I don't think I'd ever use such an ability. Even still it'd have limited use as there's no way of knowing that you will keep hate for the entire duration, so it'd be hard to balance it with cooldown. Duration would also be a problem unless you can switch it off.

Honestly WAR is the only real job without a good way of mitigating damage.

RNG has Decoy Shot
COR has doesn't really generate enmity
DRG has High Jump/Super Jump
DRK has Dread Spikes, Stuns, and Drains

And those are the only jobs that, when played poorly, die faster than a WAR

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No job has everything... that's called unbalanced. As people have mentioned WAR is one of if not the best DD, for that reason it needs to lack defensively.