New ability (posted in jp)

[Theytak]

I'll repeat what was mentioned before and say that this totally does not look like a level 95 job ability.
Some of the job abilities at 95 look like mini-two hours (Manawell, for example.) To place it on scale, cool down doesn't seem to balance out well. Perhaps if it cleared ALL burden, or if its recast timer was ludicrously low (like, 1:30 or something) then it would make sense.

Otherwise, this looks like an ability that can scale on effectiveness based on player level. Something that can be added somewhere between level 40 and 60, based on abilities from other jobs.

well, the problem with that logic (in regards to pup, anyway), is that it points out one of two things. A: Overdrive is a horrible 2hour, or B: Cooldown could have been something much more useful if it were taking part of Overdrive (like the enfeeb resistance, or the haste boost).

Don't get me wrong, I like overdrive, I just don't feel that it's really got the game changing ability that warrants a 2hour recast timer like most other 2hours do. Now, if SE were to split it into two abilities, one allowing maneuver spam w/o overload, and one giving the short term buffs to enfeeb resistance, attack speed, damage, and (NOT MAGIC DAMAGE *puprage*), and then throw them each on to 20 minute timers.... and actually, give us role reversal and ventriloquy at like, level 30 and 50, and replace their T2 merit slots with the new split up overdrive.... and then give us a real 2hour....

now that would be awesome.

Burts was a pretty big one.

Some others over the years:
* Ventriloquy no longer claiming a mob (loss of our only native claiming tool, an instant JA claim that effectively worked like Provoke with a little shorter range for claiming purposes)
* In addition to more recent puppet hate modifications, some earlier changes (like the one that removed the ability to solo Diabolos with Spiritreaver)
* Puppet super fast spell recast (which was obviously a bug, but was a freaking blast)

I personally don't really care much about not getting some great new ability. We got some good new attachments in the July mini-update when most jobs got nothing, we'll get new spells (Thunder V, maybe some WHM spells), H2H skill increase is a bigger buff than most DD jobs just by the nature of how H2H damage is calculated, etc.

A couple minor tweaks with Cooldown and Pet Subtle Blow trait aren't a big deal, but I'd rather have them than not.

the vent one was the one I as forgetting, thanks. I don't personally count fixing obvious bugs as nerfs, though, with the exception of magic mortar, because that wasn't an obvious bug, and whether or not it was a bug is debatable. Still, I agree, cooldown/SB will be nice. Not game changing; just convenient.

[Kristal]

There was also the 0-Maneuver Mana Converter nerf, which allowed AFK skilling of Guard.

I'm glad to see the devs thinking of PUP, and actually communicating it to us. For a long time, devs have had little but contempt for the job. (A good indication of that can be found in the confusing and ill-matched gear available to PUPs below 75, such as a lack of decent gear and no access to endgame gear from expansions before ToAU.)

Now if they could add an Elemental H2H WS.. (or automaton Elemental WS, but H2H also helps MNK)

[Dfoley]

Sigh we dont need ele ws, nor do our pets. Just like we dont need asurans fist.

There is life outside/after abyssea.

That and most of those 'nerfs' are obvious bug fixes that most people knew would be addressed eventually.

[Kristal]

Sigh we dont need ele ws, nor do our pets. Just like we dont need asurans fist.

There is life outside/after abyssea.

That and most of those 'nerfs' are obvious bug fixes that most people knew would be addressed eventually.

Asuran Whatsits?

There's also life inside abyssea, and I'd rather not use a lvl 77 dagger (augmented Yataghan is best dagger available for PUP, as far as I can tell) with 70 lower skill and limited in subjob choice because it's the only way to make amber myself on PUP. It wouldn't have to be another Fell Cleave or dethrone Stringing Pummel, just some decent damage EWS.

And yes, some of the nerfs mentioned above where unbalanced and in need of a fix, but others were entirely focussed on limiting PUP for no good reason.

[xbobx]

Problem is they fixed all the bugs that helped pups and ignored the bugs that hurt pups. So it is very one sided.

[Dfoley]

I wont argue that xbobx.

Tactical processor and terrible ai, we are looking at you.

[Dfoley]

I just dont see a need for amber light generation.

Just like i dont see it for assurans fists.

To this day no one has given a valid argument why we need it that doesn't start with 'when i low man abyssea'. In which case you should have a mnk/war/nin/whm/blm/blu where any one of those can get amber.

I love pup, but its not built for low man. Its built for solo, single group party content (read as exping old school), and endgame (low man abyssea isnt end game).

[Theytak]

I just dont see a need for amber light generation.

Just like i dont see it for assurans fists.

To this day no one has given a valid argument why we need it that doesn't start with 'when i low man abyssea'. In which case you should have a mnk/war/nin/whm/blm/blu where any one of those can get amber.

I love pup, but its not built for low man. Its built for solo, single group party content (read as exping old school), and endgame (low man abyssea isnt end game).

You're completely wrong on that point, because you're not talking about "low man", you're talking about "absolute minimum party member efficiency with triggering in abyssea". Pup is one of the best low-man jobs in the game, given how easily pup can fill in any slot in a low number group (melee DD, magic DD, heal, limited support, limited tank). You're correct that pup isn't designed for !!proc efficiency, but that's not fucking "low man". Pup excels in solo, Single Party, Single Alliance, and most End Game content (I say most while thinking about einherjar...)

Also, being able to proc red is incredibly useful if you're solo-trigger farming. Mnk and pup are both really solid solo jobs in abyssea, but neither of them are capable of effectively solo farming gold chests for triggers. That's the only reason any of us want an elemental h2h WS (which it does technically need, since it's one of two weapons without a single elemental WS; the other being great axe. Though, for anyone using axe besides bst, axe has no elemental WS either, but since primal rend is elemental axe has an elemental ws.)

[Dfoley]

You're completely wrong on that point, because you're not talking about "low man", you're talking about "absolute minimum party member efficiency with triggering in abyssea". Pup is one of the best low-man jobs in the game, given how easily pup can fill in any slot in a low number group (melee DD, magic DD, heal, limited support, limited tank). You're correct that pup isn't designed for !!proc efficiency, but that's not fucking "low man". Pup excels in solo, Single Party, Single Alliance, and most End Game content (I say most while thinking about einherjar...)

Also, being able to proc red is incredibly useful if you're solo-trigger farming. Mnk and pup are both really solid solo jobs in abyssea, but neither of them are capable of effectively solo farming gold chests for triggers. That's the only reason any of us want an elemental h2h WS (which it does technically need, since it's one of two weapons without a single elemental WS; the other being great axe. Though, for anyone using axe besides bst, axe has no elemental WS either, but since primal rend is elemental axe has an elemental ws.)

I got lost in the part where I said good for solo/single group/end game and then you started argueing that that was where they excell...

Low man in abyssea = minimum number of people which is the only place people talk about wanting asurans fists and amber light generation. I wasn't refering to low maning old school content that any single group can kill now.

I also got lost when you said monks hand no good way at amber light generation. Cataclysm called and would like to talk to you.

Axe has 2 elemental ws, 1 is bst only (mythic), the other is war/bst only (empy).

[Theytak]

I got lost in the part where I said good for solo/single group/end game and then you started argueing that that was where they excell...

Low man in abyssea = minimum number of people which is the only place people talk about wanting asurans fists and amber light generation. I wasn't refering to low maning old school content that any single group can kill now.

Yea, I was mostly just pointing out that you need to clarify that when you're saying it. Pup is good in normal sense of "low man". Pup is not good in Abyssea Lowman Procing, but neither are 2/3 of the other jobs in the game. It wasn't really a shot at you so much as my annoyance at people being excessively vague when they talk about stuff on these forums, to the point that half the time you can't be sure you know exactly what someone is talking about, and it normally results in useless arguments that result in both sides arguing in circles never even realizing that they effectively agree with each other.

I also got lost when you said monks hand no good way at amber light generation. Cataclysm called and would like to talk to you.

I... dur...

Axe has 2 elemental ws, 1 is bst only (mythic), the other is war/bst only (empy).

Cloudsplitter doesn't count as a warrior ws because no sane warrior is going to waste their time grinding bukhis to get it, since it's damage is meh (rampage pretty much dances all over its face) and there are half a dozen other, easily accessed elemental WS war has access to; sanguine blade. But this bit is mostly just my gripe that cloudsplitter sucks.

now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go back to failing at monk. That, or I should get some caffeine or something...