New idea for Spirits...?

[MakkotoParinne]

Of course I don't think you're trolling! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I didn't intend to make my comment about the drawback seem directed at you and/or snooty, forgive me.

I'll politely disagree with you again, however. Avatars tend to tank while soloing, and reducing what meager defense they have (even with a flat 50%+ reduction) would be a little much, considering that most of the Summoners I know or have known are soloers. The last thing I want to do is reduce my protector's defense.

Also, a Hasso-like ability wouldn't really fit what Summoner normally does, which is consume/maintain MP. It just makes a little more sense to make the drawback go around that. Bringing Avatar's Favor into the matter though, it reduces an Avatar's physical/magical prowess, so I suppose it wouldn't be an impossibility to implement, just unnecessary in my opinion.

Please don't add fuel to the fire. It is, honestly, irritating to sift through pointless arguments to read through forum threads.

Edit: About the "being complicated" thing, I didn't mean to program, I meant that adding additional perpetuation would be easier to deal with in the long run instead of suffering from an instant stat decrease for the entire duration. It would be less complicated for perpetuation because unless you plan for it (or merit it), it hurts you over time (outside of Abyssea).

[Korpg]

Mala, what you are asking is wishful thinking. SE will not give SMNs a job ability that would allow then to have better stats than what an actual DD should get.

Plus, you have not proven me wrong at all, much less twice. You don't know anything about the concept of Enmity and the cap in place currently. Unless you have some really bad NIN tanks in your little group of yours and are able to take hate easy with your SMN (or DNC) that is. But even still, you don't know how easy it is to cap enmity. Even THFs can cap enmity at the last 10% of a mob's health, which I have seen happen many times (considering that the THF and I are the only ones meleeing on the mob, it sucks when the mob turns to the THF just before the THF uses SA). NINs can cap Enmity easy, and without tanking at all. When the enmity is capped, no amount of Innin will save them, and having the evasion down effect of Innin is very noticeable.

But seriously, why would you expect an Hasso-type effect for SMN? Are they melees? Are they hateless damage? Are they disposable pet jobs? You should have figure that out by yourself, but you want them to whack mobs with a staff!

Did you level SMN as a bad WHM or something?

[Covenant]

I also forgot to mention that I had an alternative take on spirits as well. I suggested multiple sipirts out(3max) for 3 times the mp costs. Summoner could summons an additonal spirit every 30 lvls.

[Dallas]

I'll politely disagree with you again, however.

No one is polite here. Knock it off!

[Malamasala]

I'll politely disagree with you again, however. Avatars tend to tank while soloing, and reducing what meager defense they have (even with a flat 50%+ reduction) would be a little much, considering that most of the Summoners I know or have known are soloers. The last thing I want to do is reduce my protector's defense.

You can disagree all you want, I always accept others to have different opinions. What I usually try and explain, is why their ideas aren't as good as they think. In this case higher perpetuation as the negative is just as bad, since it will hurt you while trying to get refresh effect while soloing to restore MP.

If you honestly want to favor soloing, I think you should try and think of some other negative effect. That is just my personal opinion from my experience of solo and reliance on MP to actually win. (I'm not that great at solo though, but I tend to feel that MP is a big deal even with 0 perp.)

[Tannlore]

Extra Perp is a fine and dandy solution to this conundrum and just in line with the spirit of the job (no pun intended). There are plenty of solutions in the game for smn to overcome the problem of high perp costs so this obstacle can be overcome. If SE were to ever implement something like this, you could probably bet your horn, it would involve massive perp costs.

[MakkotoParinne]

No one is polite here. Knock it off!

Mmmkay....

[MakkotoParinne]

You can disagree all you want, I always accept others to have different opinions. What I usually try and explain, is why their ideas aren't as good as they think. In this case higher perpetuation as the negative is just as bad, since it will hurt you while trying to get refresh effect while soloing to restore MP.

If you honestly want to favor soloing, I think you should try and think of some other negative effect. That is just my personal opinion from my experience of solo and reliance on MP to actually win. (I'm not that great at solo though, but I tend to feel that MP is a big deal even with 0 perp.)

It is, in my opinion, easier to deal with an extra 5 perp. than with less defense. I'm certain there's enough gear out there to maintain MP without a drawback as potentially dangerous as Damage Taken +25%. Besides, if MP becomes an issue, just Elemental Siphon and be done with it. Due to the drawback, it could make the ability situational. In those cases, abuse it, otherwise, find another way around.

And MP is a big deal, of course. If we run out, we're done.^^; Which is why this ability can be augmented through Spirit perp. cost merits if you can't handle the detriment adequately or if you just want some free help. Seems pretty fair to me.

[Malamasala]

Remind me again, is it 5 perp before or after merits? Because I doubt there is gear available to subtract an additional 10 MP drain compared to what we have now. But if you can get the extra cost down to zero through merits, then who am I to complain on your idea.

[MakkotoParinne]

It started as 10, but I changed the original post after a bit to 5 reduced to 0 through merits. That way, as I posted before, you just choose between Avatar with offensive merits or an Avatar + free Spirit assistant and only one other thing fully merited.