Auction house and Dynamis Money

[Siviard]

Billions Tahn? Get real. Quit your fear mongering, ya commie.

[Alhanelem]

OK OK OK several hundred million. Ignoring the fact that more than 10-20 million is more than out of the average player's reach, what difference does it make? The point is there.

[Suirieko]

Putting these ancient currencies on the Auction House will not do anything to help with the price. It won't make the currencies cheaper. There are too many limitations with the Auction House to even justify putting the coins on AH. That said, currencies are fine as it is.

Remember people will regularly buy and sell coins en masse, especially the relic holders. Given the limitation of the Auction House, it wont' do anything to fix that. If anything, putting coins on the auction house will defeat the very purpose of currency market in the first place, due to the said limitation.

You can only sell up to 7 items. Whether they are 7 stack of items, or 7 indvidual items. Currencies stack at 99, so you can only either sell single unit currencies or all 99 at once. That said, it's not economically efficient to distribute single unit currencies on the auction house. I'm sure on average, relic buyers (and even people upgrading their Relic AFs to +1) will buy coins in any numbers, that they can afford. Bottom-line is, when it comes to single unit currencies. It will not do anything to help, period.

They could stack currency to 12 or 99 and for 100s a simple 12 stack would suffice.

Really, prices wouldn't spike too high due to the chance of being undercut. You'd have the initial price rise but eventually prices would reach equilibrium.

You could always simply sell your currency off AH regardless of the change.

Let's assume they even change it so you can stack the coins to 12 units. It will NOT help at all. Also, it should be noted that stacking single units to 12 will make it impossible to convert single units to 100 unit, since you can only trade 8 items at a time, stacked or not, so therefore, can only trade up to 96 units, making it impossible to convert to 100 unit. So no, absolutely not.

Now, let's even assume they do put currencies on the AH. the only type of currencies that might help would be the 100 units. IE = Lungo-Nango Jadeshell, 100 Byne bills, and Montiont Silverpieces, since those people will tend to buy in small amount, usually one or two at a time, unless the person have a hell of a lot of money.

Now, consider the 'fee' for selling the items, we'll keep it at Jeuno since that's where everyone tends to hang out at.

Single item fee = 1% of the seller's asking price +50 gil.

So assuming you sell a Montiont Silverpiece at 1,300,000, it will cost 13,100 gil to sell it. Even thinking of selling a stack of Montiont Silverpieces (which even if this happen, would never happen) would be scary. The fee for that would be about 643,900.

Bottomline is: The currency market as it is, is fine. It's incredibly inefficient to distribute the currencies via AH. 100 units on AH MIGHt be feasible, but If (God Forbid) this was ever done, I'd still be sticking with bazaars and shouting.

[Panthera]

There are too many limitations with the Auction House to even justify putting the coins on AH. ...If anything, putting coins on the auction house will defeat the very purpose of currency market in the first place, due to the said limitation.

What limitations? What "purpose" of currency? New items are added to the AH at every update. Unless you're talking about this:...

You can only sell up to 7 items. Whether they are 7 stack of items, or 7 indvidual items. Currencies stack at 99, so you can only either sell single unit currencies or all 99 at once.

So I can sell a maximum of 7 items. Depending on what I'm selling, this can be more or less in Gil value than I'd sell normally anyway. What's your point? How does that "defeat" the purpose of currency? as you say.

That said, it's not economically efficient to distribute single unit currencies on the auction house. I'm sure on average, relic buyers (and even people upgrading their Relic AFs to +1) will buy coins in any numbers, that they can afford. Bottom-line is, when it comes to single unit currencies. It will not do anything to help, period.

So you buy single units off the AH like anything else, and buy as many as you can afford. It makes it so you don't have to check every mule in Jeuno and Beyond to get the best price. That helps, period.

Now, let's even assume they do put currencies on the AH. the only type of currencies that might help would be the 100 units. IE = Lungo-Nango Jadeshell, 100 Byne bills, and Montiont Silverpieces, since those people will tend to buy in small amount, usually one or two at a time, unless the person have a hell of a lot of money. Now, consider the 'fee' for selling the items, we'll keep it at Jeuno since that's where everyone tends to hang out at. So assuming you sell a Montiont Silverpiece at 1,300,000, it will cost 13,100 gil to sell it.

Welcome to the world of selling expensive things. Would I put invest 13k for a 1.3m profit? Yes. Items sell for over 1 million on the AH all the time, and I've bought and sold such things. Or, I could be smart and sell it in a home nation, and pay a lot less in fees. Putting it up on the AH gets the seller's item noticed faster and sell quicker. Putting it on the AH saves buyers time and energy.

Even thinking of selling a stack of Montiont Silverpieces (which even if this happen, would never happen) would be scary. The fee for that would be about 643,900.

Since this would never happen, the fee cannot be scary.

Bottomline is: The currency market as it is, is fine. It's incredibly inefficient to distribute the currencies via AH. 100 units on AH MIGHt be feasible, but If (God Forbid) this was ever done, I'd still be sticking with bazaars and shouting.

It's inefficient to wander around checking mules and shouting for buyers who might not be there. The AH is smart and efficient. The bazaar is fine in addition to the Auction House, but not in place of.

And while they're at it, put more things on the AH. Why not ABCs? Why not items for Empyreans? The game should make being a smart business man important again.

[Monchat]

Being able to sell coins on the AH would result in a masive drop in price, due to the massive undercutting. I don't know why people think it would go up.

Look at what happened in FF14. At start you only had bazars, pretty much like ff11's bazars. It takes too long to check each individuals so people buy stuff whenever they see a price they like. I made Millions within a few days just selling cystals at retardedly high prices. A few weeks later they introduce the search function, making bazars pretty much an auction house. Price of crystal was divided by 10, because everyone was undercutting.

[Vxsote]

I pretty much completely agree with Panthera on this one. Adding dynamis currency to the AH would serve to facilitate trade, and that would be a Good Thing. That isn't to say that bazaaring or shout-trades won't still happen, because they will. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. People will use the AH where it is convenient for them, and will bazaar where that makes more sense. Just like they do for tons of other items now.

BTW, I say this as a linkshell leader who has sold well in excess of 1 billion gil worth of dynamis currency, so I have a pretty good idea how this particular market works.

Being able to sell coins on the AH would result in a masive drop in price, due to the massive undercutting. I don't know why people think it would go up.

Probably because they lack the same understanding of supply and demand that you do. Facilitating trade does not change the supply or the demand. The only thing that it will do is even out some of the variations in price, but the average will remain the same.

[Suirieko]

So I can sell a maximum of 7 items. Depending on what I'm selling, this can be more or less in Gil value than I'd sell normally anyway. What's your point? How does that "defeat" the purpose of currency? as you say.

Allow me to refresh you on how currencies and making relics work:

LEt's take Mandau for example. Upgrading a relic comes in several stages.

Stage 1 comes in form of the base relic weapon. In this case, Relic Dagger.

Stage 2 comes in form of Malefic Dagger, this requires 400 Byne Bills

Stage 3 comes in form of Dynamis Daggger, this requires 1400 Ordelles Bronzepieces

Stage 4 comes in form of Batardeau, this requires 6100 Tukuku Whiteshells.

Stage 5 comes in form of Mandau, the last stage, requires 10,000 byne bills.

The fact of the matter is. When you're doing Dynamis, you're going to get tons of coins if you do it right. The fact is, Being able to sell only 7 currencies at a time is way too little to even justify putting them on the auction house. Selling 99 coins, is way too much. You might as well buy 100 unit currency instead. Most people are still going to be selling coins via Bazaar because of this.

So you buy single units off the AH like anything else, and buy as many as you can afford. It makes it so you don't have to check every mule in Jeuno and Beyond to get the best price. That helps, period.

I get on average 200+ coins per run in Dynamis, on the daily basis. Let's say I do want to sell all the coins. Let's go hypothical with currencies. Let's say SE do allow people to sell currencies on Auction house.

Let's say I split the all the coins to everyone involved, and there are 4 people. Everyone gets 50 coins. Sure, all 4 of the people will put 7 whiteshells, myself included. I'm not gonna wait til my currencies sell then put another 7 more. I'd still going to put the currencies in my bazaar, and I'm sure many other players will as well. That said, there will still be several mules in Jeuno and beyond selling Currencies. You can either sell only 7 at a time, or 7 stacks of currencies. Again, you might as well convert the 7 stacks of currencies into 100 unit.

Welcome to the world of selling expensive things. Would I put invest 13k for a 1.3m profit? Yes. Items sell for over 1 million on the AH all the time, and I've bought and sold such things. Or, I could be smart and sell it in a home nation, and pay a lot less in fees. Putting it up on the AH gets the seller's item noticed faster and sell quicker. Putting it on the AH saves buyers time and energy.

People avoid selling expensive items on Auction house for that very reason. Why do you think you'll see cursed gear +1 in bazaars more so than AH. Because the cost to sell them (and repeatedly resell due to undercutters) will add up. Sure, some would sell 1 million + Np, but fees DO add up, and some expensive gears can take time to sell.

It's inefficient to wander around checking mules and shouting for buyers who might not be there. The AH is smart and efficient. The bazaar is fine in addition to the Auction House, but not in place of.

And while they're at it, put more things on the AH. Why not ABCs? Why not items for Empyreans? The game should make being a smart business man important again.

Look at the number of currencies required to make currencies. In the case of Mandau you need 17900 (or 14900 if you get a loan for the final 3,000)single currencies overall. Relic buyers will buy currencies en masse off the bazaars. Inefficient yes, but the auction house is more so. Sure, if this gets implemented, I will still look for currencies off the AH. However, it would make a very, very small dent in the progress because I would only expect to get very small number of currencies off the AH.

In the long run, this will make absolutely no different to the market. People will still be selling majority of currencies, via bazaars and shouts, simply for the fact that the Auction House have too many limitation to support the currencies market. It's also not going to drive the prices down or impact the prices at all because there will still be a majority of coins sold via bazaar, rather than Auction House, and it will be the bazaar selling trend that will govern the price of the AH.

Don't get me wrong, in any case, I really don't mind the addition, but I can't just seeing this making a huge different in the currencies market period, especially not for single units. However, the 100 unit might make a different. In any case, it'll be just another mean to buy currencies and make progress on relic, even if it's little. Personally I'm overall neutral on this. It won't bother me if this gets added or not.

[Panthera]

The fact of the matter is. When you're doing Dynamis, you're going to get tons of coins if you do it right. The fact is, Being able to sell only 7 currencies at a time is way too little to even justify putting them on the auction house. Selling 99 coins, is way too much.

Consider thought that high-demand items sell very quickly, sometimes instantly. Depending on how often one does Dynamis, even 7 slots may be enough for sellers, especially if you use mules as well. If one gets too many to sell as singles, it might be smarter to sell as stacks. As far as selling stacks goes, there are times when buyers may need to buy a few stacks. For a small fee relative to how much you get from the buyer, the AH gets you speed of sales; you'll make more money in less time since the buyers have a single, go-to place for currency.

As far as buyers go, it might be worth the time of going through the server buying off the AH one at at time if it means saving money. People have to do this for certain items anyway, and no one likes wasting money.

People avoid selling expensive items on Auction house for that very reason. Why do you think you'll see cursed gear +1 in bazaars more so than AH. Because the cost to sell them (and repeatedly resell due to undercutters) will add up. Sure, some would sell 1 million + Np, but fees DO add up, and some expensive gears can take time to sell.

True, but the items you mentioned are more specialized. Sure, a Dalmatica +1 abby might have a lot of value, but a limited market. You have to just so happen to put it up when someone just so happens to want it and have the gil for it. Currency is generic enough to have more people interested in it. If it doesn't sell, it's because you got too greedy and asked for too much considering how many people should want it. The fees will add up--but so will the Gil you get for selling product quickly. This is how Wal-Mart is so dominant: volume.

Look at the number of currencies required to make currencies. In the case of Mandau you need 17900 (or 14900 if you get a loan for the final 3,000)single currencies overall. Relic buyers will buy currencies en masse off the bazaars. Inefficient yes, but the auction house is more so.

It's more time efficient to buy singles off of Bazaars, but I assert it will be more money efficient to buy off of the AH.

Sure, if this gets implemented, I will still look for currencies off the AH. However, it would make a very, very small dent in the progress because I would only expect to get very small number of currencies off the AH.

Are you sure that people won't buy more from the AH because of lower prices from competing sellers?

In the long run, this will make absolutely no different to the market. People will still be selling majority of currencies, via bazaars and shouts, simply for the fact that the Auction House have too many limitation to support the currencies market. It's also not going to drive the prices down or impact the prices at all because there will still be a majority of coins sold via bazaar, rather than Auction House, and it will be the bazaar selling trend that will govern the price of the AH.

That's entirely speculative. Don't get me wrong, my position is entirely speculative as well, I admit that. The fact is, neither of us can know what would happen to the market.

[Alhanelem]

They could stack currency to 12 or 99 and for 100s a simple 12 stack would suffice.

Don't 100s stack to 99 already?

The auction house only offers the stack size the item already comes in.

[Suirieko]

Don't 100s stack to 99 already?

The auction house only offers the stack size the item already comes in.

They already stack to 99, yes, and like the single units, it also needs to stay that way as well. To finish the relic for the last stage, you need to convert the 100 unit into 10,000 unit, which requires, a hundred of hundred unit currency.