Synergy Reborn: Revisit Evolith System?

[Kegsay]

The Synergy system is particularly cruel for players with a poor-average connection speed. This is unfair in my opinion. I am lucky enough to be able to thwack furnaces 4 times before it explodes; many others struggle for 3.

Whilst there isn't a single easy solution to this problem, it can put people off synergy if they think that they cannot make the ideal combination of elements in time due to their connections. The best solution I can think of is to remove the time element and make it reactive instead (the element of time is via HP drain / TP readying) which would give players an equal number of 'actions' before an explosion takes place. This way, latency is not an issue.

[xbobx]

"If Synergy/Crafting skills were required for Magian Trail upgrades,"

please dont give them ideas like that. I would quit in a second if they made synergy part of the magian trials.
They should make every synergy synth besides gear upgrades to normal synth skill, especially ammo, that was beyond dumb what they did.

make synergy only for evolith and equipment upgrading, give back crafting to synthesis like it should have stayed.

[Vagrua]

What would you like to see happen with synergy going forward? What kind of adjustments/changes/new things are you interested in?

I would like to see equipment with Synergy: Skill +, Synergy: Increase rate of which Thwack works, Synergy: Less fewell feed from using pressure handle/safety lever/Repair furnace bought with cinder. I would also like this equipment to be in other slots besides ones that already give skill + in other slots.

Example:
Blacksmiths' Stall
Synergy (Adept)
Skills:Smithing (90+)
I would already have Blacksmith's Smock and Smithy's Mitts equipped in the body and hand slots, but still have legs/feet/rings/waist/back/neck open which could be used. Other syths might take use of head slot for skill + such as Goldsmithing's Shaded Specs. You could also provide these from mogenhancements from setting furnishings.

I would like to be able to sign items even if someone else trades the materials to the furnace.

I would like some form of synthesis support added with a fee of cinder or gil.

I would like to be able to stand a few yalms further from the furnace to operate it.

How about HP restored to the furnace once you have aligned one of the elements? Example: "Surge! Lightning Element Achieved. HP has been restored to the furnace" along with an animation to go with it. This would only happen the first time you align the elements right so if it leaked or went overboard and you needed to re feed it to align it right again, then you would not obtain this Surge.

[Leonlionheart]

First off, this is about the Evolith system and not simple synergy reform.

I'm going to get bashed for mentioning other games but, I think we should examine the "Gem" system from WoW or the "Rune" system from Diablo II in regards to Evolith. Essentially, that's what the Evolith system is, but it uses completely random stats that are also way too situational like Vs. Skeletons: enemy cri -1%~3%, instead of static and useful stats like STR+3.

In concept, Evolith and Abjuration gear augmentation is the same thing, except Abjuration gear aug's have absolutely no restrictions like Evolith aug's do. Looking at Evolith, there are insane requirements to get way too underwhelming of effects. They might be strong against certain mobs, but most of the time there is something better, and/or those mobs just don't NEED this gear to be defeated (you could do it with a NQ Haubergeon just as easily). On top of the poor/useless bonuses of Evolith we have the "slot" restrictions where you can only put a certain type of Evolith. This system is great! When you are trying to keep people from abusing powerful slots, I.E. Critical Rate +3% in 3x slots is bad, but in 1 slot something that powerful is fantastic.

Now look at Abjuration Augments. You basically have 3 slots: 1x Random Slot, 1x HQ slot, and 1x Other Stat slot. The random slot can get anything from Water Resistance+1 to STR+6 to HP+25. The HQ slot can get (for example) Cure Potency +1~5% on Genbu's Shield, and the Other Stat is something that is preditermined on that piece of gear (Genbu's Shield is MACC+1~6? Cure Casting Time -1~8%?) Let's be honest. What are we looking at? Hardly restricted Evolith slots without the hassle and headache of farming Evolith. The only restrictions is the predetermined stats (Other than the random slot), most of which are already ideal on that piece of equipment. What we saw in Evolith was very little diversity between desirable Evolith, making the system be very similar to the ABJ augs. Certain Evolith could only be put into certain slots, specifically designed for that piece of gear, as in you couldn't put more than 1~3 types of Evolith for one piece of gear.

Ok so those are the issues. To be fixed they need some sort of reform, starting with how to obtain the Evolith. It needs to be AHable, craftable, and desirable. They shouldn't each be unique drops from unique NMs, there's no motivation to go camp those NMs other than one person getting a small chance at an evolith; a simply awful way to get players motivated. Making them craftable will bring more life into a completely inflated currency, and a need for gil beyond Voidwatch/KCNM gear and Abyssea Pop Items. The materials themselves should not be plentiful, but not completely scarce either. The drop rate of Tree Cuttings from Goobue was a good example of something worth farming; good amount of time and effort compared to reward is very desirable. Furthermore the more powerful Evolith SHOULD be hard as hell to get. Something as powerful as STR+6 needs to be hard to obtain.

Desirable is the biggest issue. Making something situationally good is great, but the ability to Augment (for example) Ravager's Mufflers +2 with Attack+12, or Haste+3~4% would make people go crazy for that piece of Evolith. Bale Gauntlets +2 being augmented through evolith with VIT+6~10, or WS DMG +3% would be a game changer, and everyone and their mother would want to go out and get that Evolith. What would really make Evolith shine is it become more simple, and more uniform. Make it so that both Bale Gauntlets AND Ravager's Mufflers could be slotted and equiped with WS DMG+3%, but don't allow Ferine Manoplas +2 to use it, for example. Keep balance in mind, yet don't completely restrict any usefulness like the current Evolith system.

Maybe add quests to add slots to powerful gear? Have some sort of slotted gear AHable? Really as long as you give augments worth using the possibilities will be endless.

Evolith could be an amazing system if you let it.

[Rezeak]

Evolith was a decent idea but the stats were far far too low.

Also the system for evolith was lazy and boring as well.

While i'm happy to say leave Evolith system in the past IF we're gonna go back to it i have a few suggestions.

Make evolith hard to get but the stats worth it.
Then make it so we can remove evolith without losing it then we could have a system that allows people to change our gear for each situation.

I mean weapons where we can choose OAT2-3 or DMG+20 with Attack/Acc/DA/TA or the emperyan WS would be awsome.

but honestly atm trial weapon system is pretty good atm (tho some weapons are too hard for what you really get)

[Ciecle]

Synergy:

Synergy is a fun tool to utilize, but it does not have near enough recipes as it should. The plan behind synergy was to be able to make items in 'mass', and be able to use it for Evoliths/augments, as well as making rare/ex gear.

Making items in a 'mass' production lowers costs on things a ton. Which puts a hurting on synthesis crafters. If it was possible,

Q: can you make it to where synergy makes items that crafters can use and vice versa instead of it being one sided?

Evoliths/Augments: The evolith system seemed like it had a good idea planed behind it, but the plan was not followed through...

Q: Is it possible to have more(and 'better') gear with much larger slots and for Evoliths to get bigger and stronger as our levels increase and for Evoliths to have a wider range of coverage then the current evoliths provide? i.e Evolith: Augments Azure Lore: Damage + 25% O:15.

Synthesis:

As a leathercrafter, it's harder to find leathers now that aren't being overshadowed by Synergy's 'better'(or to fit the level gap from old gear vs new) gear making it very hard to get the motivation to push myself over the limit and hit that 100 mark.

I am very much looking forward to the increase in stats on crafting 'HQ.' items. the only problem is this doesn't benefit crafters that HQ things like Behemoth leather when it has no specific 'HQ.'. It's very 'UGH!' to see you waste that potential HQ for a leather that shouldnt be 'HQ.'-able.

Q: If it's possible, can SE make things that 'HQ.' for say leather working into 'HQ.' versions of the specific leather(I.E Behemoth Leather > HQ. Behemoth Leather) so that when we use these specific items in crafting particular items with these 'HQ.' versions of the leathers, that it increases the chances of 'HQ.ing' the craft? (I.e increasing the HQ rate of items 10 levels or lower by 15~50% and by 5~10% for those items that are higher level or 9 levels below the current skill)?

[Kavik]

- Situational pieces are good, but please do not make them too specific. Ex: Accuracy vs. slimes. The chance of a player wanting to carry around such equipment is fairly minimal if they play multiple jobs and the equipment cannot be stored.

Amen! There has been mention of combining evoliths, this would be nice, get enough vs mob type kind of evolith's and make one that is universally nice for the piece of gear, such as str +3 or def +10 (regardless of family).

- I enjoyed the evolith system because it still included monster battles outside of town. One could not simply sit on a pile of gil crafting within town to 'build' pieces of evolith gear. They had to go out and hunt monsters or do other content. I thought this was a successful concept. In the end however, I think it failed because of how overly specific the gear was.

Just quoted this as an 'i agree statement'.

Also, I LOVE the idea of being able to change the color of your gear through pigments, but i disliked having to wait 2 weeks to make my armor red since it required a high level of smithing, I don't think you should require high level craft simply for color. While i'm on this point, i don't think you should require a high level synthesis craft for any synergy recipe (other then synergy of course), if you need a high level craft to level synergy you really need to be able to level that craft while synergyzing. Synergy is a crafting skill, none of the other crafts require a 2nd or 3rd high level craft to be able to complete all recipes in that category. While i know this is to encourage players to communicate and 'team up' this is not always easy to do when you need at least 4 high level crafting players, which i think we all know are difficult to come by, especially when they will usually have MUCH better things to do. Granted it is not horribly hard to get some crafts to 50 that is not really the point. Call me a soloist or whatever, but i think getting the item with a party is enough of the 'team up' effort, you should be able to try at your own gear for hours and hours without someone having to sit there while you blow up the furnace 20 times. Just my thought.

[Caria]

A preface for background: I am an alchemist level 95+1, have 7 jobs at 90 with Dragoon as my main job. I have completed my empyrean weapon Rhongomiant and am 70% completed with my relic Gungnir. I worked to create Sarissa (the evolith polearm) back when it was a competitive weapon for drg. I also have Corsair and Ninja leveled, both of which use consumables regularly at a prodigious rate. I have played for a number of years since long before the recent changes. I'm satisfied with some changes, appalled by others. One of the saddest and most distressing, however, in my mind, is the plight of the craftsman in Vana'diel.

Okay, here's my blurb. Much of it has been said, but I'm going to say it again. Everything, however, boils down to one point. Right now, synthesis is pretty dead. SE has introduced Synergy, hoping it would reignite synthesis. It didn't. It has provided a few new recipes. A few of those are worth doing, but mostly only things like beastmaster jugs. The fact is, synthesis is pretty much dead; and it is for one very simple reason: Synthesis is no longer an integral part of the player experience.

Prior to the series of changes involving level caps, abyssea, and other changes, every player at some point had to rely on a craftsman. When a player wanted to get armor, a high percentage of the best gear available involved a craftsman. Whether it was directly crafted, like the best STR+ or INT+ rings; dusk(+1) gear for haste; blessed or noble's set for whm; relic weapons, and so forth, or it was an upgraded piece like AF(2)+1 or abjuration gear, at some point, the player had to involve a craftsman to create something for him. Whether he did this personally with friends or via the auction house, he was absolutely dependent on a craftsman for a vast proportion of the gear most players wanted. In addition, many or most people needed to consume food, tools, jugs, ammo, potions or other items for their activities to succeed. All of these depended directly on the craftsman of Vana'diel to supply. It was nearly impossible to obtain more than the very rudimentary of these items by any means other than from craftsman.

Now, here we are, over a year later. Most jobs can be very satisfactorily, if not completely optimally, geared with AF2+3, rings and other accessories that drop directly from nms, and empyrean weapons. Not a single one of these items requires a crafted item anywhere. Granted, there are a few very nice pieces that remain. For some jobs, the dusk+1 hands are still the best option for haste (if the af3+2 and bullwhip+twilight belt doesn't take them to the haste gear cap.). There are a few very nicely competitive pieces from synergy, like the Alcide's harness, that could be used. However, these are mostly overlooked because they are expensive and roughly the same as gear available from notorious monsters directly. Food buffs are largely irrelevant due to the availability of atma inside abyssea and the vast increase of a character's power from the recent 15 levels when facing enemies outside abyssea. Ammunition has become less attractive than ever, largely because melee jobs have overtaken ranged ones. Corsairs and rangers don't have the ammunition to keep up with the recent increases in other jobs' power, and minor changes in their role (like adding treasure hunter to ranger) aren't going to repair the problem. Ninja tools have been replaced by non-crafted versions that are NPC buyable, putting a cap on how much a craftsman can charge for tools.

When it comes down to revitalizing crafting, the one thing that will work, the only thing that will work, is to make it necessary again. Not just a possible alternative, but the only way to do some things. As such, I want to propose the following:

1) Every time a player wishes to upgrade a weapon or armor, a part of that trial should be to obtain a synthesized item. Whether that be for upgrading artifact or relic armor to +2 versions, or performing upgrades for their empyrean gear from abyssea, they should need to obtain an item that is only available from a craftsman.

2) Expendables, whether they be ammo, jugs, ninjutsu tools, food, or potions, should only be available from craftsman. This means that materials will need to be available to craftsman to create, implying that droprates must be reasonable on mobs. However, even if droprates are plentiful, if you expect a craftsman to take the time to turn raw materials into bolt/arrowheads and then into arrows, the players are going to need to be ready to pay for that time. To make that reasonable, it will need to be at least 25-30k per stack of quivers. It just isn't worth the time otherwise. The same is true for tools and food and the rest. Providing NPC alternatives at prices comparable to crafted options is not acceptable; it is very counter-productive.

3) Directly crafted armor. There must be armor that all players want for their jobs that is only available by crafting, with no equally pleasant alternatives. Whether this be rings or gloves, hats or chainmail sets, some of it has to be the best a player can get. No exceptions. This armor is a one time investment by each player. They will never buy a second. As such, it needs to be worth crafting in small amounts, which means that profit margins will need to be in the 6 and 7 figure range. This is not unreasonable for one-time purchases.

Now, I realize that much of what has happened has been because the goal has been to make the game more accessible to players who are just starting and who do not have large amounts of time, gil, or linkshell members to get them their gear. However, in doing so, crafting has been completely undermined from both sides. The foundation of crafting must be supply and demand; the supply has been undermined by additional sources like NPC-bought tools and augmented gear, the demand by making the non-crafted alternatives better than or equal to the crafted alternatives. The only way to revitalize synthesis and synergy is by addressing the core problems. Revisiting the idea of evoliths is not going to fix the problem in and of itself, unless it addresses these problems.

One possible way of addressing some of this would be to provide a way to obtain evolith from the gear you obtain in other ways by some manner of desynthesis, and then reintegrate those evolith into custom gear based on the stats you chose, or by replacing (further and/or current) upgrades on gear by giving them evolith instead and then requiring a synergist to do etch and attach the evolith. This would begin to address at least one of the problems I detailed above.

Evolith are a great concept. The ability to customize your gear to be exactly what you want is wonderful. However, it never really worked that way. Each piece of gear only had a few different evoliths it could hold in each slot, and they were never extensive enough. Also, getting an evolith with the maximum stats for that slot was utterly too time consuming. I remember spending days down in SSG trying to get the right evolith to drop at max value. (I spent more time on that weapon than I did making my Rhongomiant and never did get the max stats before it was outdated. Far too much for too little value).

The best way to make evolith useful would be to make gear expandable. Make it so players can collect evolith for everything conceivable, and then attach them with very few restrictions to gear. This would allow players to use synergy to simplify their gear sets, rather than expanding them. With so much gear, players all could use a system to combine the gear that they have, or to add the buffs they have on swap gear onto their main gear set.

[Gokku]

as a person who recently leveled alot of his crafts and sub crafts and synergy to 100 /60 /60 /80 respectively i am extremely disappointed in the synergy system. Now Cloth craft and Goldsmith have great synths they can do and even make very good money. when in retrospect the amount of profitable synths for Smithing leather craft woodworking etc are next to none and the only synths making money are among some of the most difficult synths to do in the game.

There is nothing "positive" about leveling a craft in final fantasy you spend millions of gil and at least a month of your time for what? some crafts cave some synths but its nothing like it was with the level 75 cap. No longer can you level a craft to 100 and feel accomplished now you level and its pointless since every synth that used to be worthwhile is useless now and all other synths are synergy.

I know Se plans to add Dual 100 crafts and 100 synergy and crafts for both , but unless there is revisions made to basic crafts or even attractive crafts for just your BASIC crafter its going to remain something only a few do. Synergy wise there needs to be a small heal or buff to the furnace when doing the harder synths you cant expect a solo player to make these increasingly harder synths. Se really needs to stop punishing players and add some sense of accomplishment when you reach 100 or at least allow skill ups on synergy and the craft your doing .

tldr , make normal crafts , my synergy synths for all crafts , stop punishing crafters and start rewarding them for there work.

Prime Example : Grim Cuirass
Elemental Balance: Resist Vs. Fire 70 Resist Vs. Wind 35 Resist Vs. Earth 35 Resist Vs. Light 20 Resist Vs. Dark 35

Now the Fire 73 ok easy to do , takes about idk 30 secs to get fire that high
Earth/Wind also not bad takes a bit to get them right and youll get some fire leaking along the way but over all ok
Light/Dark you know this is hell on earth to do , it can take hours before light / dark line up.
ive had a grim synth take anywhere from 10mins to 2 hours to make just because light / dark messed up thats unacceptable and this is with another 80 synergyist helping me. alone ive been unable to keep the furnace lights lined up feed the light fellwel needed to repair it back to full prevent all leaks and explosions and get light / dark aligned.

[Creelo]

Personally, I'd rather the dev. team ditch working on Evolith and instead work on other content, whatever it may be.