Synergy Reborn: Revisit Evolith System?

[Manque]

- Situational pieces are good, but please do not make them too specific. Ex: Accuracy vs. slimes. The chance of a player wanting to carry around such equipment is fairly minimal if they play multiple jobs and the equipment cannot be stored.

- I enjoyed the evolith system because it still included monster battles outside of town. One could not simply sit on a pile of gil crafting within town to 'build' pieces of evolith gear. They had to go out and hunt monsters or do other content. I thought this was a successful concept. In the end however, I think it failed because of how overly specific the gear was.

[Ophannus]

Maybe use Synergy to augment AF3 accessories. Or is that planned for the Green Magian Moogle?

[Helel]

I think having multiple 100 craft skills is fine. I think synergy is fine as it is. The evolith system is somewhat broken unless you allow an opportunity to upgrade the base armor to higher levels. Even then, the "vs Mob Type" evoliths are kind of pointless, mainly because we do not have the inventory space needed to carry around such armor. My BLU is always 76+/80 with a minimum amount of gear.

Would be nice if you made evoliths like automaton attachments that you can attach to a piece of gear whenever you wish. That way, you could carry them around in your satchel/sack instead.

[Kalilla]

You could have synergy provide a chance to skill-up that craft. This would have to be at the end where you finish making the item, not during the synergy process. Maybe since synergy takes longer than crafting does raise the chance of a skill-up with synergy? Not to the point where it would be better to level a craft through synergy over crafting, but as an added benefit.

The issue is if you have more than 1 person helping with it, how do you give the skill-ups out. Someone starting the synth and not doing anything (due to low synergy) shouldn't get a skill-up, I also don't think people who are helping with it that have synergy leveled but not that craft. There are also multiple crafts and that could cause an issue, although you could get a skill-up in say, goldsmithing and clothcraft, at the same time. I guess if this was considered, the person would have to help in a way during the process, that way you cant powerlevel someone's craft. Also, the player would have to have the craft close to the requirement of the recipe.

Also:

What if you did away with the chat spam during synergy? It is impossible to read everything that goes by, and the length of it is longer than the chatlog itself (at least the english version is). If you made that into an overlay like what HP and MP is during battles that auto updates the information that would be perfect, and would reduce spam, almost completely. That is a major issue with synergy atm, I think. Spam in the chat long prevents conversation with linkshell members and friends, it's a pretty antisocial craft system since it is impossible to keep up almost. Plus an overlay box for synergy would allow more information to be displayed if needed. This probably isn't possible though, just think it would fix the issue with chat spam.

[Washburn]

Make a usable synergy furnace as a mog-house furnishing. Menu lag gets ridiculous at times and what better place to invite a party of crafters to work on that all important synthesis, while taking lag out of the equation.

[Seriha]

At present, skilling Synergy from 70 to 80 can be difficult if your main crafts don't favor the various synths available. I imagine this will be remedied for things 81+, but for whatever the next cap is, please strive to make sure there is at least one non-guild item reliant synth for each craft to cap off with.

While meant to be group synthesis, the allure isn't really there. Please be cautious about the elemental requirements for future items as while the materials might not be hard to come by, actually having the bodies to man the furnace and handle all the little this and thats can be problematic. The alternative is better rewards for successful synergies for all participants, but I can't really think of what. Bribing others with gil doesn't always work, especially if they want more than you're willing to give for a small amount of their time. Simply adding more good items will just leave people grumbling about the system if left unchanged, too.

On the whole, Evoliths were way, way, way too specific. If you can't outright change all the "Vs. Vermin: Attack +7" stones and the like out there, at least offer some synths where they can all be combined to an eventual universal Attack +7 equivalent.

From there, I'd like to see it possible for all gear to be augmented at least once. In terms of general craft goods, NQs can have 1 slot, HQs can have 2, (H)NM drops could have 1-3, and gear specifically meant for synergy customization could have anywhere from 3-6 slots. Using the earlier Attack +7 idea, if someone wanted to put 6 of those into a corresponding item, let them.

Awesome evoliths can, in turn, come from more difficult content. More average ones can be chanced upon by other means like synthesis, basic NM drops, caskets in FoV/GoV/Abyssea, and so on. They shouldn't be stupid rare, either. Pretty much any mod in the game should be able to be found somewhere, and hopefully not in uselessly paltry amounts. If need be, level restrictions can be placed on specific evoliths that could change the receiving item's level requirements. However, proper scaling throughout player levels should still be considered so it isn't suddenly like "Oh hey, I'm level 60, time to make some synergy gear!" It should be an option from level 1 onward.

Try to avoid negative mods.

More specific to the synergy process, the menu is slow and clunky. This'll probably be a PS2 limitations moment, but I'd like to instead have a graphically based menu representing the furnace where navigating controls would hover over options like Thwack and so on. Meanwhile, all the fewell options would be set overhead for easy access. Click whatever and it primes the command for a confirm/cancel button. Minimum cooldowns can be placed on confirmations to maintain similar difficulty, or emphasize being slowed/stunned by overloads. If you're confused on this, I can make a cheesy photoshop representation.

I'll leave things at that for now, partially out of curiosity to see what others may think on things.

[Atomic_Skull]

Just DON'T make upgrading Limbus and Salvage gear Synergy related and I will be happy.

[Vxsote]

As a level 99 goldsmith and 79 synergist, and student of the economy of FFXI, here are my thoughts on synergy:

First and foremost, synergy must be considered as part of the overall FFXI economy, where the health of one will always affect the health of the other. Strengthening the overall economy will give synergy more room to grow, and strengthening synergy will boost the economy. I hope this relationship will become more apparent as I discuss some of the more detailed points.

Next, I'd like to state that I generally like synergy. There are a lot of haters out there, but my general feeling is that many of them will complain no matter what, especially about anything that actually requires effort. Please do not cave to demands that essentially amount to people wanting something for nothing. The purpose of synergy must be to add value to items/gear/materials, and that value must come at a price. The trick is to find the right balance.

Moving on, there are several specific issues with synergy itself that can be addressed to improve the system:

Relevance
This is a problem with both synergy and crafting in general. It seems over the last several years, there has been a distinct shift from much high end gear being crafted to most of it being ra/ex drops or quested items. Take rings as an example. Once a staple of goldsmithing, it is now rare to see a high-end DD wearing one crafted ring, let alone two. Items such as the Rajas Ring, and more recently Epona's Ring, have become the standard to meet.

Weapons and visible armor face similar challenges, as Magian and Empyrian items are quite exceptional. Even slightly older synergy items, such as the level 77 weapons, are now completely obsolete... especially those that can be found in abyssea chests with significant augments on them.

One possible solution would be to return to having more high-end crafting materials drop from NMs, which must be then synergized into quality, must-have gear. Think of something like the Noble's Tunic (back when it was worth 15M gil). Another possibility would be to require synergized items to be turned in to an NPC to complete high-end gear, similar to salvage gear (but at lower cost, please).

Time and Difficulty
One of the reasons that synergy is unpopular is that the time required to complete a single recipe is much greater than that of a traditional craft. Sometimes superior yields reward the investment of time, but not always. While you listed mass production as a positive aspect for synergy, that is offset by the fact that recipes take longer to begin with.

At the same time, the maximum time allocated to complete a single recipe is way too short. I understand that part of the idea behind synergy is to use teamwork, and that the time limit is intended to present a challenge. But synergy should not be a race to complete the recipe before the furnace craps out, especially given that client performance and menu latency play a significant role. Some recipes are difficult to balance, and I am ok with that difficulty, but we should be given more time to fine-tune our results so that we don't have to start over so often after a single error. I would suggest that you at least double the amount of time available to complete a recipe. Quickness in operation of the furnace is its own reward, as time is our most valuable commodity.

Interface
I agree with what Kalilla posted regarding the chat-and-menu-based interface. It sucks. I know this probably falls into what would normally produce either an "it's too hard" response, or a "PS2 limitations" response - but the chat-based interaction is a severe weakness in the synergy system. Please try to come up with something better.

Marketplace
I consider it a positive aspect of synergy that I can make ex items for people. But that requires crafting on demand, and is not always convenient. Please use caution before implementing too many of these recipes.

Along with my previous statements about the economy, something I want you to consider is the Auction House. The Auction House always has been the primary means of trade in FFXI, and should remain so. However, the AH system has not expanded to accommodate the vast increase in the number of materials since its inception. I believe this deserves its own entire thread, so I won't go into too much detail here. I also know that some ideas have previously been rejected as too difficult, such as allowing customers to place "wanted" orders to be fulfilled. Please reconsider that, and other suggestions, from the perspective that improving the AH will also lead to increased trade, a healthier economy, and aid in the rejuvenation of crafting and synergy. After all, we MUST have an easy way to buy and sell our goods.

I will give a few quick suggestions for the AH though:

• Allow "wanted" orders to be placed and fulfilled.
• Extend the time for an item to sell to more than 3 days.
• Expand the number of slots that each player can use on the AH.

Thanks for reading my suggestions.

[Tezz]

Evolith where do i start?

Fields of Valor & Grounds of Valor + Elite Regime -
Upon completion there is a random chance of obtaining evolith (stats commensurate with difficulty of the page). The bosses of course being more suited for good evolith.

Dungeon Crawlers & Daily Reward System -
The more powerful Evolith should come from here. Maybe not so random stats & 100% chance at obtaining an evolith for completion. Even rarer evolith from the bosses.

Combining Evolith -
High level Synergy can combine evolith that are eligible for combination (marked with an icon on the evolith or a color around the border). Can do away with the "eligible only" if the Devs feel it's ok to be able to combine any evolith.

The process below(may need a few adjustments):
Step 1: Obtain a "Blank Evolith"
Step 2: Etch the Blank Evolith for the desired Evoliths you want combined
Step 3: Place the no longer "Blank Evolith" in the furnace for completion.

Now, the player will have a single evolith with combined stats.

[Aquilla]

Vxsote said it perfectly. I like all of his points. I think that everyone who replied so far made excellent points, but if only one gets read, it should be Vxsote's.

I'd like to add my vote to the "Evoliths are way too situational" group. Nobody will ever want to have a piece of gear that only works vs. a single mob family.

Also, gear that the evoliths could go on is pretty rare. At the moment, there is no reason why I would ever want an evolith or one of the etchable synergy specific gearsets.

what I like!:

-- warp rings. The jeuno ring got a lot of use from me when I was questing.

-- cool furnishings. My sister collects 'em, and they were fun to make together.

-- group synthing. I admit I didn't think it'd work, but its actually not that bad, and kind of fun! Me and my family got together and made some rings and furnishings.

suggestions/wishlist!:

-- Evolith that give a set amount of stats. Example: accuracy+10, evasion+5, str+2, what have you. No mob family specific evolith, please.

--make every piece of gear etchable. Is it really going to break the game at this point? I don't think so. It'll definitely get everyone wanting synergy, though. It might allow people to condense some of their gear. Even if there are limits as to how many evoliths/what strenght can go on a piece.

--make synergy give certain aesthetic value to armor. Even if it gives no stats, being able to dye a piece of gear a certain color is going to make this craft very popular. We are a vain bunch.

-- no more sidegrades. I like situational gear -- heck, I still have a VIT/chakra swap for my monk -- but please, SE, we don't need any *more* gear. Give us a way to condense some of it. It's okay to have gear swaps, but most people posting here mention that they have 70+ pieces just for everyday, regular stuff. It's okay if you let us condense some of it.

-- I'm firmly in the realm of 'it'll never happen', but prism staff. With the magian trials separating magic accuracy/magic damage/smn perp staves, what's a mage to do? How's about letting us put some of those staves together?

that is all ^^