Explain SE!

[Korpg]

You appear to be a new poster here and apparently don't know much of anything about me, Winrie. So, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.....I seriously hope you aren't trolling.

facts are facts. That's what I try my best to stick to, and if it is an opinion I try to provide the reasons for why I have that point of view, based on what I know of a situation.

That post was in direct response to someone challenging the OP's right to post. OP didn't appear to be posting to solicit biling support, and was accused of it. He/she did not ask SE to fix an account--asked them to fix the snafus in the billing system. I simply posted some possible reasons why he/she may have posted is all, in counter to the accusations lobbed at the OP. Those reasons are based on events that are happening, and gave an example to back it up.

For that, I get called a tinfoil hat wearer? Korpg should really know better...we've both been round and round these forums long enough to know that I am not in the conspiracy theorist camp.

As for "dribble about how right you are".... well, I direct you again to the point above: facts are facts. Either they are right, or they are wrong. A few people have called us wrong on posts without providing any evidence to the contrary, while I and others have provided evidence to support those challenged facts. When something I post has been shown to be wrong, I stand corrected and the record shows it and we try to move on. So, if it is dribble about me being right when I and others have been proven to be in the right...well, then I guess a bunch of us here are dribbling fools?

I agree with you, I think that the OP made this thread to draw attention to himself.

My reference for "tinfoil hat" was because of your wording to your response. You make it sound like SE is out to scam everyone, you even use that word in that post. I'm just wondering when this scam theory will stop. Will you leave it just for SE, or will you continue and say another company (Click and Buy), then another company (Microsoft), then start saying countries (Japan, USA, UK, etc.) are out there trying to scam money from the "hardworking people of XX countries" (in case you haven't realized, a nation as a whole hasn't been hard working since the 1950s, everyone got lazy at 1960s and 1970s, and started demanding free stuff since then, at least in USA it has been that way).

Yeah, it is some historical political BS, but at least it is verifiable facts. Better than hearing it from a friend (or a friend of a friend of a neighbor of a friend).

[RAIST]

I agree with you, I think that the OP made this thread to draw attention to himself.

My reference for "tinfoil hat" was because of your wording to your response. You make it sound like SE is out to scam everyone, you even use that word in that post. I'm just wondering when this scam theory will stop. Will you leave it just for SE, or will you continue and say another company (Click and Buy), then another company (Microsoft), then start saying countries (Japan, USA, UK, etc.) are out there trying to scam money from the "hardworking people of XX countries" (in case you haven't realized, a nation as a whole hasn't been hard working since the 1950s, everyone got lazy at 1960s and 1970s, and started demanding free stuff since then, at least in USA it has been that way).

Yeah, it is some historical political BS, but at least it is verifiable facts. Better than hearing it from a friend (or a friend of a friend of a neighbor of a friend).

Some were paid up to date, and had their content ID cancelled in the billing cycle, and were made to pay to reactivate it when they were not behind in payment, and then made to pay again in order to play. You always pre-pay for your time. If your time runs out and you get locked out, you don't owe them any additional monthly fees other then to prepay for the time you intend to play after activating (small reactivation fee is one thing, but not a full month--but even then, if it is their error, you should not be charged to reactivate) , yet some are having to double pay to get back in. This has been happening in the past, and everyone just kind of shrugged it off as they way they do it. This has continued to happen to some people who were paid in full and switched to crysta and had to pay a month up front when doing so. Then they had to turn around and pay another month--again, double-payment. Maybe it will auto-correct itself in the long run, or maybe they will have to fight SE to get it corrected.

And, I don't think people are asking to get something for free. If anything, they are asking simple to be allowed to pay what they actually owe.

Still don't see how that qualifies me as a tin-foil hat wearer. The simple fact remains that many people are being forced into situations where they are having to pay more then they are required to play the game. This is the result of a shoddy system, that was not thoroughly vetted, and not fully disclosed. It has been laiden with billing errors and questionable fees, has triggered additional fees from financial institutions that customers have never had to pay in order to use SE's service, all of which could have been addressed in advance if the process had been fully vetted. SE was full aware that some options would not be continued to certain users, but did not disclose this information. SE was also aware (or at least should have been aware) of the potential for additional fees that could be imposed on players if they used C&B (as evidenced by past records on the matter, some even generated when they tried to set it up for FFXIV). SE has also long since been aware of the glitch in the system that causes the double-pay situation that is STILL happening. SE is aware of the fact that players have to buy more crysta up front than is required to pay for their accounts, due to the $5 minimum increment situation--and are thus required to pay SE more up front to cover their subscription fees in the short-term. In the short term, it looks like a big money-grab from SE. This just smacks of foul-play at first. That has the appearance of being a "scam", hence it was put in quotes.

Now, lets look at Webster's definition of a scam:

a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

Whether all this was intentional, or just a mere oversight (some may argue differently on some points, as SE has already been made aware of some issues in the past) can be open to debate. Obviously, you have a different take on the situation, but there is no denying that this makes a lot of people feel like they are being taken for a ride, as though they are indeed being "scammed".

[Alhanelem]

Have you ever tried to deal with customer support? I'm guessing not.

I have. And my experience was pleasant.

Really now, I think people are making shiat up to slander SE. the OP's situation is too ridiculous, because it's simply not possibl that anyone's billing date could be the 7th unless they just reactivated between the 1st and now; in which case the OP absolutely should have been cancelled (or never activated in the first place) because they were just reactivating.

Billing no longer takes place at the end of the month for the following month. Its when you first start playing and every 30 days thereafter.

Given the original billing issues many people had before the account transfer were about 3-D Secure, a tool intended to PREVENT fraud, you could reasonably accuse SE of certain things, but fraud is not one of them. Any time there has been a real, actual double billing SE has owned up to it and done the right thing (refund the overcharge). There is no double billing here and I'm almost certain the OP made up an extreme story to get attention.

[RAIST]

I have. And my experience was pleasant.

Really now, I think people are making shiat up to slander SE. the OP's situation is too ridiculous, because it's simply not possibl that anyone's billing date could be the 7th unless they just reactivated between the 1st and now; in which case the OP absolutely should have been cancelled (or never activated in the first place) because they were just reactivating.

Billing no longer takes place at the end of the month for the following month. Its when you first start playing and every 30 days thereafter.

Given the original billing issues many people had before the account transfer were about 3-D Secure, a tool intended to PREVENT fraud, you could reasonably accuse SE of certain things, but fraud is not one of them. Any time there has been a real, actual double billing SE has owned up to it and done the right thing (refund the overcharge). There is no double billing here and I'm almost certain the OP made up an extreme story to get attention.

Eh.. other's have posted getting the double-shot too. Probly the same glitch that's been in the system for years (account was active into the future month while billing was going, then got cancelled for non-payment, flagging you as past due at that point--or something screwy like that, forget excctly how SE explained it in the past), they just have to call SE on it and try to get it sorted out. Have a feeling this problem will continue until they fully move everyone into the new system and all the legacy crud is cleared.

Just be aware that for now, if you re-activate, you may still get hit with the extra amount. Hopefully that goes away after 8/31.

[Alhanelem]

Probly the same glitch that's been in the system for years

There has been no such "glitch in the system" for years. Barring the one time when they actually did have people deactivated for nonpayment unintentionally, causing them to incur more fees to get back online, this has never happened with any regularity. 99% of all "double charges" under the old system were not double charges at all- it simply charged users for the month of reactivation and the next month at the same time. It looks like a double charge but it's not, because you never actually paid for the reactivated month.

[Godofgods]

Really now, I think people are making shiat up to slander SE. the OP's situation is too ridiculous, because it's simply not possibl that anyone's billing date could be the 7th unless they just reactivated between the 1st and now; in which case the OP absolutely should have been cancelled (or never activated in the first place) because they were just reactivating.

I'll admite to not being the greatest speller in the world, but you need to learn how to read.
My payments were aways up to date. On aug 6th i changed billing methods from direct C&B to the crysta. And when i woke up on the 7th, i founds my account canceleld. If i hadnt paid the months fee's, they would have cancelled it earlier. Which means I did pay that months fee's. Now, as you said, billing doesnt take place on that date. Theirfor theirs no reason for a sudden cancellation of the account a week into the cycle. When i had to reactivate the account, they charged me a full months fee. Which would mean i was billed the same months fee twice.

As for the other aspect of this C&B nightmare, when i added 20.00 worth or crysta to my account and got en error message after confirming it, and the crysta was not added my account, I was still charged the $20.00 to my card. So iv gotten billed yet again.

Now obviosuly i dont expect the mods or anyone to fix the problem here. Just bringing it to the communitys attention that things like this are accuring. And maybe they'll care more when it happenes to them.

[RAIST]

There has been no such "glitch in the system" for years. Barring the one time when they actually did have people deactivated for nonpayment unintentionally, causing them to incur more fees to get back online, this has never happened with any regularity. 99% of all "double charges" under the old system were not double charges at all- it simply charged users for the month of reactivation and the next month at the same time. It looks like a double charge but it's not, because you never actually paid for the reactivated month.

It's happened to each of 3 of my friends in game over the past 2 years. Two accounts were manually de-activated prior to the next billing cycle, and got hit with a past-due charge and had to pay 4 months worth to get in game, then sort it out with SE for the refunds. One account was due to a CC being stolen and couldn't get the new info updated in time due to a snafu with 3DS verification on the replacement card, and got dropped during the billing cycle for non-payment. Several months later, this account got booted again with this billing cycle. All three of these players are basically giving up on it this time and not coming back.

Yes, it didn't happen a lot... but it DID happen on occasion, however rare it may be. And, apparently it is still happening on occasion. Gogofgods is not the first one to post having similar issues atm while the system is in transition.

Edit:
Just read an email from a friend who got drop-kicked during the last billing cycle. He's reluctant to try to re-activate as he just doesn't feel like wrangling with SE if they don't handle it properly for him, and he was not planning to move to C&B or Crysta like a lot of the other players have posted. So, we may not be seeing some snafu's reported because those people simply aren't reactivating for now.

[Alhanelem]

My payments were aways up to date. On aug 6th i changed billing methods from direct C&B to the crysta. And when i woke up on the 7th, i founds my account canceleld.

Not possible. If you changed on the 6th, then you had just paid your fees on aug. 1st or july 31st (whenever the maintenance was). There is no reason for them to charge you, much less cancel your account, when you change payment info in the middle of a month. Otherwise, the same thing would have happened to me when I set up billing the day the transfer system became available. The only way anything like what you're describing could possibly happen was if they hadn't charged you yet (After almost a week, I find that hard to swallow) and they just happened to decide to post the charge you between the switching of your payment methods.

It's not a reading comprehension issue here, it's a you're full of it issue. There's just no way what you're saying is true. Prove it with before, during and after pics (And I'm sure you didn't think to take any before or during).

It's happened to each of 3 of my friends in game over the past 2 years.

It's happened to 0 of my friends in game over the past 8 years, and every person I've talked to accusing of double billing (Except in regard to the recent billing issue which SE admitted to and apologized for) turned out they reactivated during the month prior and thus it wasn't a double billing.

[Khiinroye]

He bought Crysta on the 6th. That is charged at the time of purchase and put onto the account. The Crysta is later deducted from the account for monthly fees. Since there was a billing error with the Crysta purchase, (not the FFXI subscription fee) the connected FFXI accounts were cancelled. When he reactivated, SE charged him for the month of August again, and they crysta was still not on the account, despite C&B having charged his card.

None of your friends had any problems with a rare occurence, so your story must be true. However, there are people who have never cancelled their accounts who have been double billed after years of playing.

[Korpg]

He bought Crysta on the 6th. That is charged at the time of purchase and put onto the account. The Crysta is later deducted from the account for monthly fees. Since there was a billing error with the Crysta purchase, (not the FFXI subscription fee) the connected FFXI accounts were cancelled. When he reactivated, SE charged him for the month of August again, and they crysta was still not on the account, despite C&B having charged his card.

None of your friends had any problems with a rare occurence, so your story must be true. However, there are people who have never cancelled their accounts who have been double billed after years of playing.

And they will have September paid for already also. I doubt that people who are getting double billed are not going to have the credit on their account to pay for the next month.

I got double billed once, when I reactivated my account. But I also got the next month free, so I basically paid for a month in advance when I came back. I'm pretty sure that the same thing is going to happen, but since people generally don't come back and say "my mistake, even though I got double billed on one month, they took the extra payment and went against the next month, so it was all good," you only remember the negatives of stories like this.

In September, everything will become all right again.