So, Fafnir

[Nidhogg]

Yeah, Fafnir is a jerk, it rips me apart that I have to be related to the guy.

[Concerned4FFxi]

i did a 99ksnm recently and our group took 7 nq pops out and we returned with 0/7 hq pops. While im pleased that the drop rate remains challenging, im amazed at how past challenging we are on the drop rates. Especially since kindred seals are not pouring in theses days because they get crowded out by kindred crests or high kindred crests. Perhaps an exchange rate of 2:1 for seals would be fair, where high kindred crests redeem for 2 kindred crest, for 4 kindred seals, for 8 beastman seals, etc; instead of the trade any 3 for 1 seal idea which honestly doesnt get used. Im not asking for a defender's ring 24/7 or even the hq pop 25%, but drop rate increase would be ideal (dont get me started on all the other unbalace and this can't get fixed? why not just give away coins in WOE with auto-reraise after 30 seconds or give pup an ability that lets them recall their pet almost 24/7.....oh that's already been done, thanks for the balance and challenge. If you can't bring a reraise item with you to WOE go home.

[Korpg]

I believe the conclusion is that the stats sacrifices to your tp gear to make a 5-hit build with Ukon just isn't worth it.

I still get 25% haste with enough STP to get 20~21 TP per hit, and I only lose, what, 4 STR/DEX and 22 attack per hit. I know that 22 attack is what, ~17 damage per hit, but being able to WS faster makes up for it. I really like my 5 hit, played with it somewhat last night, and didn't notice the missing damage that much. I think that losing ~80 damage per WS is better than losing 1 WS out of 5 from having to add a hit. When I get my Moonshade Earring and add Regain on it, I will be really close to a 4 hit (not quite making it, but still). Kindof wish that they added STP as a possibilty.

On a side note, the slow effect on Ukko's Fury, I noticed it to be very potent. Anyone know the slow % yet?

[Tsuneo]

I still get 25% haste with enough STP to get 20~21 TP per hit, and I only lose, what, 4 STR/DEX and 22 attack per hit. I know that 22 attack is what, ~17 damage per hit, but being able to WS faster makes up for it. I really like my 5 hit, played with it somewhat last night, and didn't notice the missing damage that much. I think that losing ~80 damage per WS is better than losing 1 WS out of 5 from having to add a hit. When I get my Moonshade Earring and add Regain on it, I will be really close to a 4 hit (not quite making it, but still). Kindof wish that they added STP as a possibilty.

On a side note, the slow effect on Ukko's Fury, I noticed it to be very potent. Anyone know the slow % yet?

When you 5-hit Ukon, you sacrifice more than just haste. You lose Double Attack as well as the other stats you mentioned. With a high rate of double attack you are more than likely going to have TP overflow, which is going to make a 5-hit less effective than a 6-hit.

[Korpg]

When you 5-hit Ukon, you sacrifice more than just haste. You lose Double Attack as well as the other stats you mentioned. With a high rate of double attack you are more than likely going to have TP overflow, which is going to make a 5-hit less effective than a 6-hit.

I lost, what, .4% haste? Double Attack, I lost 3% from Atheling Mantle and 2% from Ravager's Gorget. 2% from Pole Grip too if you want to add that in there. I still got ~26% Double Attack from merits/gear still, that is still 1/4th of the time. Instead of 1/3 of the time. I still think that, over time, with Retaliation up, I will do more damage with my current gear than with my old gear.

TP overflow doesn't really increase damage though, except from the extra hit.

[Taint2]

I lost, what, .4% haste? Double Attack, I lost 3% from Atheling Mantle and 2% from Ravager's Gorget. 2% from Pole Grip too if you want to add that in there. I still got ~26% Double Attack from merits/gear still, that is still 1/4th of the time. Instead of 1/3 of the time. I still think that, over time, with Retaliation up, I will do more damage with my current gear than with my old gear.

TP overflow doesn't really increase damage though, except from the extra hit.

With decent Haste buffs the 6hit will win. Its been mathed out many times. Ukon has excellent white damage and you are forgetting the 120 delay attached to each WS.

[Korpg]

With decent Haste buffs the 6hit will win. Its been mathed out many times. Ukon has excellent white damage and you are forgetting the 120 delay attached to each WS.

Except we can always expect 80% haste buffs 100% of the time, right?

Even on a lowman situation?

[Taint2]

Except we can always expect 80% haste buffs 100% of the time, right?

Even on a lowman situation?

All it takes is Haste and Hasso. With marches the 6hit will murder the 5hit. You are greatly underestimating haste,DA,att and WS delays effect on DPS.

[Korpg]

All it takes is Haste and Hasso. With marches the 6hit will murder the 5hit. You are greatly underestimating haste,DA,att and WS delays effect on DPS.

Actually, I think you are underestimating WS damage.

I have .4% less haste than cap. 25% haste with a 5 hit is not hard to get.

Attack and Double Attack, I'll agree with you though, they are very important, but still, they take a back seat for a reduction of hits between WSs. The damage output by Ukko's Fury is outstanding.

Besides, didn't the maths also state that over time, given that all other things are equal, a 5 hit with a reduction of attack and double attack will still win out over a 6 hit with a minimal increase of Double Attack and Attack?

[uptempo]

All it takes is Haste and Hasso. With marches the 6hit will murder the 5hit. You are greatly underestimating haste,DA,att and WS delays effect on DPS.

Honestly from his posts he's thick headed Taint i wouldn't even bother trying to explain the benefits of 6 hit ukon to him he won't take it in.