Re: Payment Issues and a Suggestion

[Aselin]

Here is something for you, Square Enix, to read. My response regarding these payment issues.

http://ffxi.mmo-notepad.com/2011/08/...yment-options/

The most important fact to know is that you, Square Enix, needs to learn that not all your customers are the same or all live in Japan. We, the playerbase, are just about anywhere in the world playing this game.

[RAIST]

Need to update a section of that posting, as new information came availble after that FSA site restored it's services. I forget which thread it was in...if I can find the conversation on it again, I'll edit in a link to it later.


Edit:
found the the other thread...starts with the original posting, then it jumps around a bit b/c of multiple conversations going on.:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post159122

Alhalanem (props for helping to sort it out!) found the extra info and we had a few more posts on the issue:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post159268

it goes on for a couple posts, then skips a few and I think it finally ended here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post159520



Basically, what it all boils down to is the regulatory authority demoted them from a Financial Firm to an emoney handler (after years of being classed as the former) which may be the bigger reason banks are rejecting them, and not the perceived distrust from the consumers.

They went from a company authorized to handling multiple instruments to a restricted set, and thus are not held accountable for the same security and other regulations as higher level institutions that may handle the same level of credit card traffic. In short, they went from being a bank to a currency vendor (hence the subset of "Money Laundering Regulations"--it is an easy conduit for laundering practices as evidenced by how Click2pay was transfering payments to alternate currencies and then back to the intended currency before actually paying a bill, pocketing a little profit from the market exchange rate differences.

In short, it does still raise a question....just what was the reason for the change. If it was just regulatory changes, what was the dividing line that changed them from one status for over 9 years (even bypassing a similar restructuring that took place in 2007, when the Money Laundering Regulations subset first came into play). Was it something specific that Click&Buy got caught doing or not doing, or is it just a general issue with the particular type of company that Click&Buy falls in line with (ie, other game currency houses).

Either way, the simple fact remains...there was a specific legal/business change that cuased the governing regulatory entity to reclassify what C&B is allowed to do, and also potentially lowered their regulatory requirements. This is likely a big factor influencing the banks to reject C&B that are founded in business/legal principles and not because C&B has a questionable reputation with their customers.

In other words, it may simply be a corporate or even a common regional industry policy to reject them because of how they are now classified, or it could have been a specific incident or policy that was discovered while under review from the FSA that is causing a red flag for certain entities to reject them.

[Napkin]

Interesting reading.
Wonder if S-E would do something though.

[Vazerus]

Excellent read; it sums up my throughts almost 100%. I posted this reply on there, but it's awaiting moderation:

"Agreed with all points, and for ways to “fix” the billing system I’m all for buying exact Crysta amounts. Discounts for buying in bulk on top of that would make me resubscribe in an instant; almost every other MMO does this when you have the option to buy months in advance."

[RAIST]

made a more "formal" post along these lines, more or less concerning SE's lack of communication in a hot thread. That page is about full and it probably will get lost in the shuffle soon, so going to repost it here, as it's kind of in line I guess:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160310

in response to mod posting quoting the first response from Matt on payment issues:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160255

Just wanted to copy this here to make sure you guys saw our post on the FAQ thread:


Please continue to provide your feedback, it is continually added to our discussions.

Thanks for the effort Hvinire, but Matt's post has already been referenced and quoted. And, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but it really does nothing to encourage us that anything is being considered that would actually rectify the situation. I'm not trying to single you or any of the moderators out with this post--I know how your hands are tied as I have worked support for a private software firm that was responsible to corporate and government entities and I know the rock-in-a-hard-place spot you guys are left with So please if I offend, I do not mean to. I just feel the need to put something on record detailing how I and many others view this situation in one post that you may be able to forward up the chain of command that are governing the flow of information, as well as those making the determinations for development that directly affect the issues at hand.

One of the biggest problems people have with this change is the disparity between the billing options between JP region and all other regions. For YEARS SE has preached both regional and platform equality within the scope of FFXI. This decision to continue this option for one specific region with no explanation for why it has been denied to everyone else just simply contradicts SE's past declarations in regard to balance. SE REALLY needs to make a definitive statement on just WHY this decision was made--and whether they are looking to rectify that SPECIFIC issue, not just the billing processes in general as they did with Matt's post. This is gearing up to be one of the biggest Public Relations blunders I have seen in a loooong time. This has the potential to have a long term affect on SE's bottom line--it potentially can affect not only FFXI revenues in the short term, but also the revenues of all other current and future projects. It's just human nature...once bitten, twice shy. Just look at what has happened with the distrust over Click&Buy in the corporate world that has filtered into the distrust of the consumers for a recent example.

It is known that SE is capable of processing credit card payments for the other regions (as evidenced by their online stores). It is also known that SE knows how to bill those credit cards specifically for FFXI subscription fees (as evidenced by how long it's been done through POL). It is known that they have come up with a way to accept the credit card information through the SE account pages (as evidenced by the JP regional transfer guide).

Taking all that into account, it would appear to the general public that SE has all the pieces to the puzzle already to make the direct pay credit card option available to the other regions. Granted, there may be some issues in making all the pieces fit now as things are getting restructured with moving to a different database, maybe new PCI-DSS requirements, or FSA regulations and what-not. If so, why can't SE let you guys pass that one.

All we're asking for is a little more information than...we are aware of the comments... it's a work in progress. How about something more along the lines of.... we are aware of the players concerns of issues with credit card processing but due to specific difficulties we are unable to continue this service for all regions, but we are looking into alternative solutions to the problem.

As it stands right now....many are just throwing their hands in the air and not expecting anything to be done about it. This is doing NOTHING to encouraging people to give you guys the benefit of the doubt and the possibility of a mass exodus from either just FFXI or Square-Enix in general is increasing daily with the silence. If they could at the very least release a statement that clearly states they are putting forth a best effort attempt to provide this direct-pay by credit card to all regions, it would salvage a LOT of pending loss of revenue. There are many that may opt to continue subscribing via Crysta in the short term if they know they stand a reasonable chance to go back to directly billing their credit cards.

Please... just let us know exactly where SE stands on this issue. And don't be afraid to divulge the specifics. Trust me...even if it is just a cost issue with maintaining the service, you might be surprised by how many might be willing to pay slightly more for the added convenience and security. If you don't believe me, here is a real-life example:

A firm I worked for developed a front end for processing tax payments online. The counties would always balk at the credit card processing fees from the clearing houses and did not want to absorb the costs. In EVERY case they ended up passing that fee directly to the customer. We clearly displayed there would be a fee incurred to cover the cost of using an online processor, broke the fess down in the shopping cart so they could see it and decide to cancel the transaction. NO ONE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE FEES. In every case, in-house traffic reduced. Most counties put up kiosks so those that did walk-in could pay without standing in line--and they happily paid the extra fee without a word even though they were right there in the cashiers office. In the end, operational costs were reduced, and some even requested more applications to do the same thing. We wound up taking the same structure and built applications for them to accept water bill payments, family court payments, traffic court tickets, vehicle tax and license plates, and even the entire Parks and Recreations division went online for one county--allowing residents to reserve park facilities, sign up for community classes and activities (soccer, basketball, baseball, etc and could even order and pay for uniforms through the portal). All along, being notified of the extra fee being passed along, and happily and willingly paying that extra fee as it justified the added convenience.

Please, do not underestimate the value of disclosure when dealing with an issue with as much an impact as this.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[wildsprite]

you know there is another possibility here for the payment issues, it is very possible that it isn't that SE doesn't want to deal with CCs directly, someone in another post mentioned them losing their payment processor for one reason or another, perhaps this is correct and they are in the midst of finding another payment processor and cant talk about it till it actually happens

sometimes internal policy prevents speaking about things that have not happened in certain situations to prevent people from believing they were given false information incase it falls through

I'm kinda hoping they are looking for another payment processor and will offer other things like direct payment from paypal and CCs in the future

not gonna hold my breath but this is still a possibility

[RAIST]

They've still got their CC processor for the US. It's still up for their online merchandise site:
https://ssl.square-enix-shop.com/SqE...6869pKrGfI6zAx

*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

Unless they're seriously lagging behind on updating that site.


Edit:
hmm... never noticed this before....but they pass off AU business to another party alltogether.
http://www.square-enix-shop.com/au/fake-au.html

They really have something wierd going on with that region for some reason. Treating them like the unwanted red-headed step-child for just about everything now with the C&B/Crysta issues.

[wildsprite]

paying for merchandise maybe easier for them than a subscription...or perhaps they plan to add their CC processor on the site but fell behind on something, who knows, this is SE were talkng about, could be any number of reasons and they wont tell us

[RAIST]

it all goes through the SE office in CA (SQUAREENIX7 858-790-7529 CA). If they weren't using the same CC Processor account, it was at least going through the same office for processing and that office appears to still have a CC processor account still working.

If anything it's likely a difference of whether they are connecting directly to that clearing house via a secure tunnel from Japan or if they are sluffing off the account info to California and letting them process it. Regardless, they've had that process in place for years and would just need to revise the process to be using a different database and possibly different file/field layouts for it. If that's the case, they shouldn't have even made the change until that was worked out.

No matter how we try to think through and rationalize it....that simple point remains---They shouldn't have done this without either A.) making all regions capable of direct pay via CC, or B.) Disclosed that they will no longer be able to provide the direct pay via credit cards.

As it stands, the didn't do A.), and they misled us on B.) by implying everyone would be able to direct pay with their credit cards and then ganked that option for everyone else and replaced it with C&B.

* Payment Methods:

Square Enix Crysta (http://www.square-enix.com/na/account/crysta/), debit cards, and credit cards will be viable payment methods after ID transfer. Debit and credit cards must support personal authentication services (such as 3D Secure) in order to be used.



* Logging into PlayOnline after the Transition

Certain customers may be required to register their Square Enix account and PlayOnline ID before logging into PlayOnline.



* Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: Can credit cards without personal authentication services (such as 3-D secure) be used?

A: Cards without personal authentication services, such as 3-D secure, can make payments using ClickandBuy International Ltd. and Ultimate Game Card® via PlaySpan, Inc.



3-D secure will be required only for cards that support and have been set up with it.

Q: Will the billing methods change?

A: Yes.Square Enix Crysta and credit cards will be viable payment methods after the transfer.

They never made it clear that the direct pay by 3DS supported cards was being pulled, and now during rollout we find they were yanked. If they had made this known during the initial postings about this, they could have had over a MONTH of advance notice about it and given them plenty of time to get a response from the players and take the appropriate measures to remedy the problem in advance.

Edit:
In contrast, here is info from the JP version of the FAQ:

■ Payment of the post-migration
• The payment after migration, and the credit card will Crysta Square Enix.
Credit card identity authentication service (3D Secure) is only available for cards that support.

Crysta Square Enix can be charged with credit card and WebMoney.
For Crysta Square Enix, please refer to the following URL.
http://account.square-enix.com/howtocrysta/jp/ http://account.square-enix.com/howtocrysta/jp/
Today in preparation for migration ※, on the PlayOnline Viewer, since payment by WebMoney for August 2011 are no longer ordered.

Q: How does pricing change?
A: After the migration of payment is the credit card and Crysta Square Enix.
Credit card identity authentication service (3D Secure) is only available for cards that support.

Q: Personal Authentication Service (3D secure) credit card is not compatible to be used?
A: No, Not available.
From the perspective of security, identity authentication service (3D Secure) and is only available to our credit card for.
Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

In addition, if you do not have a corresponding credit card orders and payment methods to set the Crysta, please consider the charge by WebMoney.
http://support.jp.square-enix.com/fa...77&id=450&la=0 http://support.jp.square-enix.com/fa...77&id=450&la=0

[erevan]

This is ironic, SE insists that folks get the security token, for another layer of security, now SE is farming out our CC information to a 3rd party. I kind of trusted SE(POL) with our CC info, mine, my wife and 2 sons(4 diff cards); it seemed secure, or at least we never heard of any problems. From reading thru all these forums, it seems all the options available to NA players are less than favorable as far as security or ease of use is concerned. I have to question tho, did SE do away with their billing department for the game, but if they still taking money for in-game items, doesn't seem like it. I did check with my bank, they said, don't know what 3D secure is but our cards are VbV, so we'll see what happens. I'm still not completely sure if SE will still take any CC at all, or if just Crysta via C&B or PayPal.