On the Topic of RDM Magics

[Stylin]

It's a little strange they're choosing to cram Gain-Int into the 96-99 gap with Gain-Dex.

[Seriha]

Well, they deviated with Gain-CHR, so not too surprised.

[cidbahamut]

White Mage being given Addle felt like a kick below the belt. We're supposed to be on top of the enfeebling thing right? Does SE realize there's more to that than just having an A+ skill rating?

[cidbahamut]

This thread needs some love and I had an idea this morning. Probably a bad one but just run with it.

What if our tiered enfeebles stacked with each other? Like, you can cast Slow and then stack Slow II on top of it. It wouldn't really fix the problem of mob TP moves, but I think it'd be a pretty damn cool trick, and might even make Blind II worth meriting.

The chatlog would be kinda weird though if they wore off separately. 'paralyze effect wears off', well which one? Ideally it would work so that the first tier simply acts as a boost effect to the second tier so there's really only one effect on it.

Example because I lack linguistic clarity:

Slow: X%
Slow II: Y%

Slow > Slow II: X% + Y%, duration based on Slow II.
Slow II > Slow: Y% because you didn't prep the mob with Slow to boost Slow II.

[Rayik]

My first thought is that it would be overpowered. As it is, our enfeebles don't work on mobs that actually count, so the idea of stacking them, when they don't work in the first place, seems really unlikely.

But if it did work, mobs would be complete push-overs. Stacked para's and slow's alone would turn a mob into a muddled, drooling punching bag.

[Shiyo]

RDM definitely should have a stronger haste than WHM(and especially /whm). In real events the RDM will end up being the one casting haste because of our af3+2 set bonus, so ours should also be stronger. 4-5% stronger is not game breaking and will help RDM a lot more than anyone thinks.

Giving RDM a plague, amnesia, and inhibit TP(Like yurin) enfeeble will also make them the masters of enfeebling and incredibly useful again.

These two things, as well as not making monsters immune to our enfeebles(they can be immune to every other jobs who cares), a cure4 2.0 so we can cure - > cure4.5 instead of having to lolcure3 and a few more cool/powerful/strong enhancing magic buffs for party members would make RDM perfect.

Any RDM complaining about haste/refresh cycles seriously needs to play another job. That's like a bard complaining about song cycles(which last MUCH shorter and require you to position properly or single target with pianissimo).

[Hyrist]

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

The base differences between RDM and BRD.

BRD is 90% Buffs.
BRD's buffs are the majority AoE BY DEFAULT. So having to cast them on a shorter duration is offset by the fact that they don't have to cast March on 6 people individually (Twice for double March), then Ballad on 6 people individually.

Imagine ONLY Panissimo. With Bard, with ALL of their buffs and debuffs. Then add in MP mechanics.

Until there are better mechanics (MORE than just Composure) surrounding RDM's Buff spells, calling RDM anything more than primarily a self enhancer is a false statement. Haste and Refresh ARE powerful, but they are NOT a buff library suitable enough to call RDM a buffer any more than Swords make RDM a full DD Job. SE might have tried to state as such in the Manifesto, but until the deed is done, RDM does not deserve the title.

What we are is a good single target enfeeble. And I'll put my backing over spells that allow us to address issues with TP moves. Though I severely doubt we'll be getting Amnesia at this rate (nor would it work against the mobs we'd want/need it to anyways.) Plague and 'Inhibit TP' are iffy at best, but I'd put more weight behind plague.

I'm repeating myself again, but what I'd like to see is an Addle for TP moves. A passive spell effect that reduces the effect of TP moves by a growing amount, but more importantly, delays the use time, giving a larger opportunity to stun, run, or prepare defenses. It also effectively stops additional attacks while the monster is charging (if the ability has a charge time.)

I've already stated my solution as to what would make RDM a better buffer (A way to transfer buffs on themselves to an ally, bypassing the self-target mechanic so we could technically give Temper along with other stats to an ally.) While Bard DOES get Panissimo we don't rightly have a good one-target buffer in the game as of yet.

[cidbahamut]

My first thought is that it would be overpowered. As it is, our enfeebles don't work on mobs that actually count, so the idea of stacking them, when they don't work in the first place, seems really unlikely.

But if it did work, mobs would be complete push-overs. Stacked para's and slow's alone would turn a mob into a muddled, drooling punching bag.

I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that. Stun alone does more to turn the tide of battle than our whole arsenal. I'd like Red Mage to have more stuff in its toolbox that's comparable in magnitude.

But yes, game balance is a pretty big concern and the more immediate issue is that SE keeps making everything immune or have a floored land-rate.

[Rayik]

I think that ought to be our goal even if it's realistically unachievable due to the need to keep the game balanced. The whole point of enfeebling ought to be disabling the foe to the point where it's significantly less of a threat, and I don't feel Red Mage really accomplishes that. Stun alone does more to turn the tide of battle than our whole arsenal. I'd like Red Mage to have more stuff in its toolbox that's comparable in magnitude.

But yes, game balance is a pretty big concern and the more immediate issue is that SE keeps making everything immune or have a floored land-rate.

I agree, I'm with ya on the goal of using our enfeebling. It's just like, as you said, keeping it balanced is a big concern. Trying to find a fair middle-ground with enfeebling is a headache with how the game engine works. Enfeebling is either super-powerful or useless, at the moment.

[Rayik]

Shiyo just attacked the majority of the player base. *eyeroll*

No, Shiyo, cycle mechanics should not be the root of RDM, ever. Single target cycle tedium is not a valid gameplay mechanic and it's both trite and boring.

Really? Nobody has brought up bagging on buff cycles in weeks. Is Shiyo just trying to start a fight out of thin air?