On the Topic of RDM Magics

[Karbuncle]

The 2nd Job Trait seems a bit overpowered as it would overshadow buffs from other mages like Haste and rival a WHM's fully-merited Shellra V. I do like Krabnuckle's 1st proposed Job Trait, though. It meshes well with SE's vision of RDM as a master enfeebler/enhancer.

Yah, I was thinking of making it not work on Protect/Shell, because of just that. Haste i thought would still not be toooooooo powerful, Because it would give a RDM a solid spot in the party, Who wouldn't take an extra 4% haste?

It lets the WHMs go back to Curing, and etc. If you cant find a RDM 15% haste is still there, but if you can invite a RDM, you get 19%. it wont make or break a party but it would be a significant boost to RDMs Enhancing potential!

on the topic of hindering TP moves!

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Spells

Plague
Reduces an Enemies TP and MP over time.
recast:20s
Duration: 2minutes
Effect: 4mp/4tp-tic


I would think Amnesia, But I don't know a good balance for that.... 2minute recast/30sec Duration? What would be a make/break point for it... Dont want it to be useless but also dont want it to be too powerful! leave that to them

Edit:

but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I think elemental seal caps your Magic Accuracy (95%), So it wouldn't boost it too far. and Magical Critical hit is only ~+10MAB. I don't think its too broken! I could be wrong :X

Edit2:

How about-

Job Ability 1
Forces a Magical Critical hit on your next attack
Recast:3min
Duration: 1min or next spell.
(This might fit BLM more.)

[Kensagaku]

There we go, something I can get on board with. I've nothing against RDM Melee (I have a melee build myself for situational uses... albeit a work in progress) but honestly I'd like to enhance what we're most skilled at. This is just my opinion, however.

Anyway, regarding Karby's ideas:

JA1 - As it has been said before, I'd love to control this. Back before I had some better atma, I used Apoc for the Quick Cast, but as a result I started seeing nukes in my Fast Cast gear, or enfeebles in the same, and that always messed me up. Being able to control it would be nice, like for a quick raise or something. I would be the first to support this but everyone already beat me to the punch. :P


JA2 - For some reason I see this being named "Concentration" (since Focus was taken by MNKs, though the FFIX/X renditions had it as a BLM ability to boost magic damage). I like this as well, and it could be a nice compliment to Saboteur. However, I do see the potential to it being a bit overpowered if it's a constant effect for three minutes; it toes the line pushing RDM into nuking territory, and while we can do this to some extent, the 15% M.crit could potentially (and again I say potential because I'm not one of our mathers) be too strong. I do like the enhanced accuracy as well, but how does it compare to Elemental Seal, as a curiosity? Don't wanna necessarily push that out of usefulness either (even though we should be the better enfeeblers anyway and this would widen that gap).

I also used parentheses far too many times there.


JT1 - This one I like, especially since you can stack your more potent debuffs with Saboteur too. Would love to see Para/Slow II be more potent. Would this affect Bio/Dia too, increasing further their attack/defense down abilities? Would it affect their DoT, and on that note the Poison line as well? Just a curiosity. Because by expanding the duration and effectiveness of DoTs, it would really help our overall ability to aid in the battle by reducing HP faster (which makes a visible difference finally on these high HP mobs!) and further weakening the foe.


JT2 - Maybe just take Haste off of the list as well? I mean, I'd love to see a potency boost on Protect/Shell/enspells/Aquaveil/spikes. Though with the last two, how would that work? Would it be longer-lasting Aquaveil effect (i.e. more interrupts prevented), and more powerful spikes? Maybe a bit more elaboration would help this look more viable.


There was one other idea I was looking at, the one Duelle put up. While it might seem odd to put RDM into the double-element nukes, I like the restriction, and you could technically claim it to be "Red Mage Canon." Could be something like Dualcast/Doublecast (your choice of name) but focused on just making the dual-element nukes rather than being two rapid-cast spells. The only problem I immediately have with this is that while we have the restriction of being one tier down, it also pushes us more into BLM's territory; we're a flexible job, and while we're able to nuke, that should not become a defining role.

Maybe what I'd like to see for the dual-nukes is a further enhancement on what they're doing with skillchains; by casting these spells, you do a good amount of damage and reduce the enemy's resistance to certain elements very briefly. Yes this toes the line for NIN's line of elemental jutsu with their enfeeble effect, but I'm just tossing ideas out as I go.

Another thing that could be considered is a dual-resist drawback; each half of the spell could be subject to its own resists. As an example, let's name them after the skillchains for now, i.e. Fusion/Distortion/Gravitation/Reverberation... those would be cool spell names. Let's say you're fighting a fire mob and you cast Distortion. The water half wouldn't get resisted due to Water > Fire, but the ice half would be subject to severe resists. So let's say you get a full resist on the ice half, you'd put it down to 1/16 of its potency. The spell itself would end up having only ~53% of its potency. This would be a potentially relevant nerf to keep it from digging too far into BLM territory while still providing us with a good line of offense, especially a Dark (well dark/earth) and Light (Fire/light) nuke to give us a even more versatility.

Mind you, these are just random ideas that came to mind upon reading the whole dual-element bit. Pardon the rambling. XD

[Crimson_Slasher]

Thankyou karbuncle for this thread, granted it took me time to realize it existed and i did post a rather aggressive post in the melee thread just now, this what that post exactly called for! Now for me, i think potency is one way to go for rdm, as we do lack some in the mage department, however... On an enhancing/enfeebling standpoint personally, id like to see spells more in line with the gain spells to be utilized for RDM, things not unlike "Gain-Att" or perhaps to boost those wanting to enhance our tanking/offenses in mage methods, we could add "Gain-MAB" or "Gain-MDB" to rdm for some very powerful buffing indeed, as it would further support the mage side and manifesto ideals. Allowing us to boost our own MAB or that of say a BLM/SCH would help the party, especially with the ability to cast gain stat spells (int/str/dex) separately from these gains. That or again possibly splitting the gain spells from the boost spells, allowing us to utilize all at once, boost spells AOE but cant stack, why not make it so gain can stack but not aoe? Just some thoughts.

[Karbuncle]

Oooh, I got a small idea...

Job Ability

Soul Aura
Grants the Buffs on RDM to players within Area of Effect. Overwrites existing buffs. RDM loses said buffs.
Recast:2minutes
Duration: Instant

Every job can Accession as /SCH, So this isn't as broken as you might think, Plus it could be level 91+. Plus the RDM loses the buffs (having to recast them). If RDM is truly suppose to turn "Mere mortals into demi-gods" they need a strong boost to buffing potential, This would give rhyme and reason to single-target buffs RDM has.

This will also help RDMs buff parties by buffing themselves, then using the JA, everyone in range gets their buffs, but they lose their own! There could be another draw back to it, to "balance" it. But Im not creative enough to think of a good one.

It could also Spread the love of "Composure" buff durations, to the point it would even help some other mages (Due to added duration).

WHM would still have stronger potency buffs when it comes to Pro/Shell, and Barspells, but RDM being able to buff themselves then AoE it by removing it from themselves saves time and will help RDMs workload a lot. Leaving room to cure!

[Covenant]

Magian trials offer most of these "wants and wishes". Were getting a "fast cast" job abilty under manifesto.

[Kensagaku]

One downside to your ability, Karby, is that it takes away from the AF3+2 set ability, which enhances the duration of your party's buffs. By casting self-only (say Protect, Haste, Shell, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Spikes, Aquaveil) and then Aura-ing it, you might as well not even bother. Just as a note, it might end up making the set obsolete.

[Karbuncle]

One downside to your ability, Karby, is that it takes away from the AF3+2 set ability, which enhances the duration of your party's buffs. By casting self-only (say Protect, Haste, Shell, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Spikes, Aquaveil) and then Aura-ing it, you might as well not even bother. Just as a note, it might end up making the set obsolete.

Well, It'd only effect your own party members, there'd still be a few uses for the Composure bonus, Like alliance members, or outside of your party.. IDK

It could just get base Durationss to members and ignore Buffs to duration. Meaning Old Fashioned casting would give longer durations, but this method would be quicker? That could be the other "Balancing downside", that Duration Enhancements for the RDM aren't applied to the AoE

[Supersun]

I'll still believe the enhancing part on the manifesto when I see it. They have a LONG ways to go until we can even compete with Whm, Sch, Brd, Cor, and Smn, and the single target thing just simply isn't fun.

You have to realize that, at least I, have never wanted to be meleeing on HNMs. I've wanted SE to fully run with enfeebling for those types of monsters, but at the same time the weaker the monster gets the less practical enfeebling becomes. This was my idea for Rdm. For the toughest fights you pull out the big enfeebling guns and for weaker things where enfeebling isn't as practical you activate your Rdm Aura spells and contribute to the front.

The aura spell was devised to be similar to an Avatar's Favor ability where as long as you maintain the a type of aura buff on yourself everyone within an AoE radius of yourself will receive that buff as long as they stay within that radius. If they leave the radius the buff wears off quickly and they will be stripped of that buff until they enter the AoE radius again.

Perhaps the strongest aspect of the aura spell is that it cooperates with our composure and essentially gives allies buffs the same duration as our buffs. If for example if there was a Hastaura instead of having to recast that haste every 3-5 minutes across the party you only have to recast it every 9-12 mins once.

The biggest downfall as mentioned is that their usefulness plummets on HNM stye monsters where you want as few people forward as possible, but the aura spell was never intended for those style of fights. Would an AoE spell be better? Well no ****, but it's called a limitation and it's attempting to stay with the thematic restrictions given in the past. That's not to say that you are worthless for those fights. No...

For those fights you pull out the heavy weapons, your enfeebles.

If you really think about it. Our enfeebles really don't do THAT much to a monster. Slow II is about 40% capped, but it only applies to the monsters TP phase. 40% of ONLY the monsters TP phase is pretty terrible when most of the damage comes from the big bad TP attacks. It would be nice to see SE actually take the enfeebling route all the way for these types of fights. Give us our equivalent of ancient magic enfeebling, high MP expensive enfeebling spells that actually cripple the monster.

And this is the beauty where it wraps back around again. If these spells are implemented correctly the high MP cost will be a limitation that prevents it from being cast on anything that wont survive for its full duration since it'll be impossible for the Rdm to maintain his MP supply if he's expected to cast these spells on every monster and these types of monsters aren't as restrictive of who can be on the front. You just pop your auras and do whatever you feel like doing.

Now of course there's a few things with this idea. First and most importantly, SE can't just keep giving us enfeebles that are really only useful up until the point that a DD can safely recast utsusemi between swings. If they do this they have to actually cripple the monster in a significant way. Generally in games enfeebling tends to be one of the weakest methods of slowing the death of a player. Sure slow can theoretically help your tank survive 30% longer, but a full bar of MP and a cure spell will keep that tank alive exponentially longer. The real benefit that enfeebling should be cover is protection against dangerous moves where the tank is in danger of getting 1 shotted. Of course our enfeebling does virtually nothing for this regard so I think this would be a good point of focus. Enfeebling moves that weaken the monster or at least buy enough time so that a tank can normally survive a move that would normally kill him. It also works well for the HNM style fights that these enfeebles are intended for since that threshold of protection is addressing where the danger lies in most of those fights.

(Also, I pray SE never reads my mind about that idea of a monster attack I just had in my head D: though it would be a great way to "introduce" the concept of the power in a spell adding a addle like delay to TP attacks)

The other issue is that I would try to avoid putting mage support buffs on auras. Part of the balancing of the aura buff that separates them from AoEs is that level of risk you have to expose yourself to by standing next to the mob. Adding something like a Refraura completely defeats the purpose behind it.

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Also, I don't think a Dual Elemental nuke would work considering not even skillchains are truly dual elemental. From what I understand skillchains just randomly pick one of the elements that its supposed to represent for its damage.

[Karbuncle]

Re: Dual-Element Skillchains.

I believe you're correct, For instance Firesday will sometimes enhance Light Skillchain, Which while having all 4 Elements present, is still suppose to deal light elemental damage (Like Dia), but instead can be enhanced by, like i said, Firesday.

I think it choses which element would present the least resists... IDK, Skimmed over a discussion on it a while back and didn't much sink in.

[Raksha]

Re: Dual-Element Skillchains.

I believe you're correct, For instance Firesday will sometimes enhance Light Skillchain, Which while having all 4 Elements present, is still suppose to deal light elemental damage (Like Dia), but instead can be enhanced by, like i said, Firesday.

I think it choses which element would present the least resists... IDK, Skimmed over a discussion on it a while back and didn't much sink in.

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...ental-Affinity

Skillchains will generally pick the element that the monster is weakest to. You can use Threnodies and/or Ninjutsu to "tune" the element.