Formal petition: Change the billing method or lose your playerbase.

[Ilax]

The problem isn't the implementation of C&B and Ultimatepay/Crysta...

IT IS THE REMOVAL OF THE 3DS/VbV DIRECT CC PAY OPTION FROM EVERYONE OUTSIDE THE JP REGION.


Edit:
for those that haven't seen it yet (or otherwise forgot), here is the JP help page for the transfer, through Google Translate:
http://translate.googleusercontent.c...31aAKy-SQVuVrw

Scroll down to section 7. Notice it is basically to select payment method. It's graphics so not translated, but they get option for CC or Crysta--note it is just a standard MC/VISA logo. Now go to section 8b:If you choose a credit card. Note that they can put their CC information directly in, and also note the 3DS and VbV logos in the lower panel--they get to continue doing what we are doing now.

Now, contrast that to what happens in the NA version:
http://www.playonline.com/homeus/polshift/help.html

At step 7, you get to choose either Crista or Credit/Debit Card via Click and Buy--note that this step shows the C&B logo, not the generic Visa/MC like on the JP page. Now look at step 8b. You have to go through Click and Buy--no direct processing for 3DS or VbV cards.

Agree they are lucky, as they are lucky to have better lag because they live in japan too....

You know as me Visa/mastercard etc in japan and here is different system, 3D secure was a crappy shit done and there not such of bullshit in japan, to me that explain a lots why japan still can use Credit Card and not us...

Researchers criticise 3D Secure credit card authentication

Anyway if you trying to tell me that crappy system we had for credit card was perfect then you clearly have no clue of what you talking about...

[RAIST]

no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).

Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:

*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

[Ilax]

no, the point is they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards as well.

And yes, I do know a little something about what I am talking about. I worked for 4 years with a firm that developed applications that integrated with clearing houses to automatically process credit card payments. Most closely with Official Payments (www.officialpayments.com), but also some with CyberSource (www.cybersource.com).

Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

[RAIST]

Not the point, they clearly droping 3DS and VbV, no matter if they are still using the clearing house that can still handle our cards... In japan is different system.

How much $$ They lost with 3DS and VbV in last 3 yr? i wont be surprise to see a big number on that, it was cockblocking a tons of people... Never heard about such of problem with japan or EU credit card.

SE is a JP company and is they choice if they wan deal with our #CC or not, since it give them such of problem in last 3yr (making them loose money) why they would continue with such of poor system?

nope.. this shows you don't know what you are talking about. 3DS and VbV is not a stand-alone system for processing credit cards. That is a feature that your CC supplier signs up with that provides an extra lair of security within the transaction process. They are using a clearing house in the JP region to handle transactions there (and they require the 3DS authent. to protect themselves), as well as a clearing house in the US to handle CC transactions here--as evidenced in my edit that I think you just missed:

Oh, and by the way... they have a clearing house set up to process credit card payments for the US, as they use it specifically for the US pages of their online merchandise catalogue:

*Please take notice that we are only able to process online orders for customers located in the continental United States, Alaska, and Hawaii at this time.



PAYMENT

Payment must be made in U.S. dollars with valid U.S-issued credit cards.

Your credit card will be charged for the total amount of your order when the order is placed.

We use encryption methods to ensure that your credit card information is transmitted to us in a safe and secure manner. Please do not lend your credit card to third parties.

Beware of "phishing" scams. We will never request for your credit card number by email.

We cannot take orders by telephone or mail at this time.

This is restricted because it is a US clearing house. They could VERY easily setup a VPN to connect to this service and transfer our CC information. It is all scripted--the clearing houses even give you the framework for it--several versions in fact depending on what language you will be using in your application. All you have to do is put in your account specific info, and give the postback IP in their system to send the authentications back to your server. We could get the authentication to setup an account and have it up for public testing inside of 48 hours no problem--the bulk of the delays from purchasing/implementing getting the SSL pairs.

[Edit:]
did a quick search to find a simple explanation of the protocols and such, conveniently wiki seamed to be pretty decent:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure

[Sp1cyryan]

Maybe(I can dream.) they are using this turn over to weed out console users(Mostly the PS2 ones.) as you now have no choice but you have something with a web browser in order to pay for your account.

Do you honestly think that if this game lost console users, even just PS2 users that it be a positive thing? If you you are completely disillusioned.

Anyway, people bitched about this billing system when FF14 was in beta and they did not listen. I do not think they are going to listen this time either. It is probably about time this game ends, and for no reason other than SE is clearly going to kill it by their own devices.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

you are completely disillusioned.

Disillusioned? lol

[Chuchuroon]

Just no thanks, i rather have them monopolize my 5$ then increase the monthly bill... wtf seriously. Did you guy take time to read the new FAQ about C&B automatic billing system with CC? They been clear:

Q: Will customers who pay via ClickandBuy be subject to any additional fees?

A: No, customers who have chosen ClickandBuy as their payment method will NOT incur any additional fees when paying for subscriptions.

You only pay additional fee form C&B: if a customer chooses to store funds within their ClickandBuy E-Money Account.

If you just don't trust C&B (As i do....) The yes, "deal with it" and take alternative with paypal and the problem solve.

You'd rather pay $5 in points you may not be able to spend elsewhere, if at all, rather than directly fund the team that maintains the quality of the game wtf seriously?

Clearly you do not do as you suggest others to since you do not show much reading comprehension at all.

I wasn't even talking about the C&B system and whether or not it charges fees, but about how crysta forces you to overbuy points instead of letting you buy exact amounts, and how it is totally not the same as a banking institution in your poor analogy, and the "problem" is not one that is magically solved by paypal.

Honestly, I'm not even the type to nitpick over every little thing, but when I do see an honest flaw in a system that could use significant improvement, I'm going to attempt to do something about it, even if chances of SE doing something is slim. You even mention yourself how you don't trust C&B... well, it's your own prerogative to accept things even when you yourself don't like it, but don't dismiss other people's attempt to strive for improvement, that's a terrible mentality.

[Dauntless]

anyway here is already a petition.stop making new ones pls.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...355#post155355

PS.: silent ppl won't be heard anyway

Your thread is for people to express their justified anger, this one outlines our demands. Don't see why it's hard to understand.

[Sp1cyryan]

Disillusioned? lol

Yeah, just occurred to me I used the wrong word, regardless the question stands.

I also made a thread to count how much money SE will lose over this if the people who want direct billing leave. I figure they care more about our money than our outrage or petitions anyway.