Avatar AI problems that need to be addressed

[Korpg]

And I'm saying that BLM shouldn't even be curing themselves unless it's a dire situation. Enemity is but one issue.

Look, I want you to go to the BLM forums and ask them if they cure themselves on a regular basis when in an alliance for an event. I guarantee you the majority will say no.

On a regular basis? Even I don't need to cure myself on a regular basis, and my friends joke about all the times I die.

But I'll take your challenge.

[Tarage]

If you're going to ask, as the question correctly. You said that SMN shouldn't be on the hate list for slept mobs, and that BLM should cure themselves.

I went ahead and took the liberty to add your exact quote to the thread.

[Korpg]

Taken from the challenge thread:

Because SMN is a SUPPORT JOB. Again, I'll list the things that make not curing inexcusable.

A. SMN has a huge MP pool. The largest MP pool in the game.
B. When using an avatar under favor, especially Diabolos, MP is not an issue. I get something like 5 refresh per tic with my gear under Diabolos favor, so it is VERY hard for me to run out of MP.
C. When using avatar's favor, the point is to NOT attack. If you attack, the favor buff resets.
D. More often than not, the WHMs are focused on keeping the tanks and DD alive. BLM are the secondary goal.
E. BLM have to constantly keep their enmity in check. If they don't, it's next to impossible to pull hate off of them in an emergency. Curing adds hate.

If you are in a party with BLM in an event, and you are being expected to give them refresh, not curing them is inexcusable and a sign of a bad SMN.

And in regards to auto attack, I said that my avatar shouldn't be attacking slept mobs unless I tell it to. That's a very simple AI fix.

A) So what if SMN has a huge MP pool? That means we get to use our avatars more often.
B) Without Avatar's Favor, I get 6 mp per tick back, 8 mp per tick back on the same day/weather if needed. Only thing I would use is /RDM refresh. With my gear. Period.
C) Why would you need to use Favor first off? Only one of worth is Shiva's Favor, and even then, you can still do Heavenly Strike, abet a weaker version, but still.
D) My point exactly. If you are main healing an alliance, like you wish SMN can do by the sounds of this quoted text, why are you wasting your time and MP on the BLMs and not main healing the tank(s) and DDs? BLMs still have the ability to cure themselves. They have a spell, you might not know it, it only costs 21 mp, and it can give back up to 450 (mind you, day/weather can increase it further) HP while doing the same amount damage to the mob.
E) BLMs don't have an ability to lower their enmity, do they? Neither do THFs have the ability to take the enmity away from the BLMs. If there isn't a THF in the BLM party, then your alliance leader needs to learn how to make a party.

If you are in any event as a SMN, you should be expected to be a SMN, not a gimp healer or gimp buffer. You really need to talk to your leader who puts you in charge of being a SMN for events.

[Tarage]

A) So what if SMN has a huge MP pool? That means we get to use our avatars more often.

BPs have, AT BEST, a 45 second cooldown time. If you only use your SMN for SMN related skills and abilities, you are a horrible SMN.

B) Without Avatar's Favor, I get 6 mp per tick back, 8 mp per tick back on the same day/weather if needed. Only thing I would use is /RDM refresh. With my gear. Period.

Bullshit. Show me your gear list and I guarantee you are doing it wrong.

C) Why would you need to use Favor first off? Only one of worth is Shiva's Favor, and even then, you can still do Heavenly Strike, abet a weaker version, but still.

...You have no idea how to play SMN do you. No clue what so ever. Do you only play in Abyssea? Have you ever played a support role in Einherjar? Limbus? Dynamis? Kings?

D) My point exactly. If you are main healing an alliance, like you wish SMN can do by the sounds of this quoted text, why are you wasting your time and MP on the BLMs and not main healing the tank(s) and DDs? BLMs still have the ability to cure themselves. They have a spell, you might not know it, it only costs 21 mp, and it can give back up to 450 (mind you, day/weather can increase it further) HP while doing the same amount damage to the mob.

I am in awe. Seriously, I'm in awe. It's clear to me now that you don't do any major events. You have no idea that it's very common to place a SMN with a group of BLMs and a RDM or a BRD. The SMN and RDM or BRD support the BLMs by healing, buffing, and dealing with excess hate.

E) BLMs don't have an ability to lower their enmity, do they? Neither do THFs have the ability to take the enmity away from the BLMs. If there isn't a THF in the BLM party, then your alliance leader needs to learn how to make a party.

WHAT. Are you serious? If you are trolling me, bravo. This is the most hilarious thing I have ever heard. Wasting a THF in a BLM party. Wow.

If you are in any event as a SMN, you should be expected to be a SMN, not a gimp healer or gimp buffer. You really need to talk to your leader who puts you in charge of being a SMN for events.

You don't know how to play SMN. That is very clear to me now. You have absolutely no idea.

[Korpg]

....actually, and I believe everyone can agree with me, I think you are the troll.

Why do I come to that conclusion? You favor curing over using BPs. You just stated so yourself.

You also remarked that you rather stand around doing nothing with Diabolos and having his favor up for the BLMs than using Shiva. Because MP is hard to keep up now, isn't it?

Got to love the THF in the BLM party comment though.

[Tarage]

....actually, and I believe everyone can agree with me, I think you are the troll.

Why do I come to that conclusion? You favor curing over using BPs. You just stated so yourself.

You also remarked that you rather stand around doing nothing with Diabolos and having his favor up for the BLMs than using Shiva. Because MP is hard to keep up now, isn't it?

Got to love the THF in the BLM party comment though.

I do NOT favor curing over BPs. I know the time and place for them, and there are plenty of occasions where the goal of a SMN is not to attack at all. Most of the BLMs I have worked for want Diabolos. Again, this is something you would understand if you spent some time outside of Abyssea.

I can assure you, I am not a troll. I've been doing this job for a lot longer than you have.

[Korpg]

I do NOT favor curing over BPs. I know the time and place for them, and there are plenty of occasions where the goal of a SMN is not to attack at all. Most of the BLMs I have worked for want Diabolos. Again, this is something you would understand if you spent some time outside of Abyssea.

You are right, there are times you shouldn't have the avatar on the mob, that doesn't mean you can't use a BP on the mob. Guess you didn't know this, but the damage caused by the merited BPs, they don't give TP....so you are basically handing out free damage without retribution.

On a side note, do you solo as SMN? Have you killed any NMs? I'll give you a challenge, since you gave me one.

Go kill Vouivre and get a SS of him near death by yourself, that is an easy NM to kill with moderate type skill. That would at least give you some weight for your argument.

[Tarage]

You are right, there are times you shouldn't have the avatar on the mob, that doesn't mean you can't use a BP on the mob. Guess you didn't know this, but the damage caused by the merited BPs, they don't give TP....so you are basically handing out free damage without retribution.

You're again missing the point of Avatar's Favor. Let me explain this to you one more time. Quoting the wiki page:

* Determining the time that Favor has been active is based upon the lowest time of the following three conditions:
* 1) Activating Avatar's Favor
* 2) Summoning an Avatar
* 3) Any Blood Pact.

#3 is the important one. Using a Blood Pact causes the effect of the favor to drop. Therefor, if you want to get the most out of your favor, you want to blood pact as little as possible. Since when I have Diabolos out I am using Wards every 3 minutes, it's negligible. However if I were attacking every 45 seconds like you suggest, it would have a much bigger effect.

On a side note, do you solo as SMN? Have you killed any NMs? I'll give you a challenge, since you gave me one.

Go kill Vouivre and get a SS of him near death by yourself, that is an easy NM to kill with moderate type skill. That would at least give you some weight for your argument.

I solo quite a bit. I soloed much of WotG, as well as various other NMs. Most recently I soloed the KCNM The Palborough Project, something not soloed before according to the Wiki. You'll notice the suggested number of people is 2 or more.

I'll go try to solo that dragon. I'll post back if I succeed or fail, but it doesn't change the validity of my argument. The numbers don't lie.

[Tarage]

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There you have it. To be honest, the annoying part wasn't the NM but the bombs. I tried to kite him back to the jungle entrance twice but it seems like he despawns. I wasn't paying that much attention so maybe he just lost hate. Definitely an endurance fight with his regen, but once I switched to pred claws it wasn't that difficult.

Also, I talked to a THF friend of mine and she thought the idea of a THF being used to control BLM hate as silly. She said that her ability works well for a single BLM or a DD, but not a group of them. That and it's a waste of her talents.

[Korpg]

#3 is the important one. Using a Blood Pact causes the effect of the favor to drop. Therefor, if you want to get the most out of your favor, you want to blood pact as little as possible. Since when I have Diabolos out I am using Wards every 3 minutes, it's negligible. However if I were attacking every 45 seconds like you suggest, it would have a much bigger effect.

You forget that if you BP after a full favor effect, your favor goes back up to max in a matter of seconds. Sure you lose some MAB from the avatar, which is huge for merited BPs, but if you only use the BPs to do damage (not assaulting) every 45 seconds after you have full favor, then you will keep full favor up most of the time. Just don't back-to-back BP.

Also, grats on beating that NM, you at least have some talent of a soloist. Now, how do you think you could have beaten that NM if you took away the auto-attack function of the avatar like you are suggesting?