Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Sargent]

Only thing I care about...

A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.

Can we have more information on how this JA will work? How much MP will this consume for how much of a shorter recast time?

[Malamasala]

I just hope SE thinks that JA through. There are so many things they can do wrong.

1. Limited to 1 BP only... it will be like if BLMs had to wait 10 years to get Elemental Seal suddenly, claiming "it will fix the job so it can nuke harder".
- The only way to get this JA to do what it should do, is to give an effect that lasts multiple pacts.

2. Tack on a too high cost for too little gain. We already have 100 MP cost on mana cede, which is extreme. We also have 25% damage loss on favors, which again is extreme. One could almost fear SE is going to take 100 MP and reduce timer by 5 seconds with the JA.
- Instead the way it functions should be based on time reduced. Like say 5 MP per second you use the pact too early. That means 20 seconds early = 100 MP cost. 40 seconds early (after waiting only 5 seconds from last pact) it would cost 200 MP.

3. Some kind of roll-ja, that has 5 seconds recast, and each time we use it we reduce timer with 5 seconds and lose 50 MP.
- Apart from again showing a too high MP cost, this would just be annoying when we have to spam a new JA to reduce our desired amount of blood pact delay. It simply will not work with a JA that we need to press dozens of times. (Even if I want a more active job)

I also think it is already a bit unfair that SE pretty much says "Hey SAM, here have 10% haste on a JA" and then goes "Oh SMN, if you want 10 seconds reduction to your attacks, you'll have to pay MP for it.". I don't see why SAM, WAR, DRK, DRG and all other melee jobs keep getting "only bonus JA" while SMN always gets "Penalty JA". If I didn't know better, I'd say SMN is more about sacrifice something to gain something, than DRK ever was.

[Soundwave]

The first one doesn't make sense because we already have Avatar Favor, which works in conjunction with 'weakening' our avatar. The second is just lazy. I have a macro that summons the spirit, changes my gear to siphon gear, siphons, changes my gear back, and releases, all in ONE macro. And no, I am not using windower or third party tools.

The first one I never mentioned Avatars Favor. The goal with the first one is to reflect the idea of MP management. While an avatar is out, without hindering its use of how we use ES as of now. I only stated get 1/2 MP back just for a ball park figure and the fact I think it may be a bit imba if we can have an avatar out and ES for full MP...its just an idea for your quoted "lazy"

however, the only MP management things we have are ES and Blood Boon. I didn't think it would be to far fetch to see more of this MP management situations going on.

In regards to Avatars favor, yes they need to ungimp the -stats to avatars...its very unnecessary

As for the 2nd one is mainly for solo play and it very much mirrors my idea from the first. Sure the skill for this is less difficult to the player to execute, but I don't find it any harder than what we normally do for Siphon....if a player is having a hard time switching between Avatar/spirit for ES then we have a problem.

I think you could of left out the "I have a macro for this" I would hope you do have macros for ES. So the easy response to this is "I have one as well.?" Hotdog I don't use widower as well?

[Malamasala]

In regards to Avatars favor, yes they need to ungimp the -stats to avatars...its very unnecessary

Yea, it shouldn't give -stats. Instead there should be another mode you can activate for +stats for dealing more damage, but not getting the favors bonus and -perpetuation.

[Tarage]

The hell. Do you people seriously not understand what Avatar's favor does?

It's a stance. It's a tradeoff. You trade getting a benefit of an aura and less MP spent on the avatar for a weaker avatar. If you take away the weaker avatar part, then the whole thing becomes pointless. Everyone would just have Avatar's Favor on the entire time.

I swear you people have never heard of balance before in your lives. Why don't you give Avatar's siphon? Because then spirits would be even more pointless than they were before. Why don't you take away the negatives of favor? Because then no one would ever not use favor.

Stop spouting vomit from your mouths for a second and realize what balance is.

[Soundwave]

It's a stance. It's a tradeoff..

Indeed it is, with the current gear as of now Avatars Favor side effects are irreverent to MP Refresh for a summoner...so in my eyes.....

"Whats the point of -Status effects"

When we all know that it is for a "Stance trade off." The game has moved on and it needs to have "some" type of update to please the player base.

Please step off your high horse, and take a breath and respond with more respectful post, if you don't agree just say it, don't have to get all nasty as stated in from the OP.

[Rearden]

And Korpg ruins another thread.

[Tarage]

Indeed it is, with the current gear as of now Avatars Favor side effects are irreverent to MP Refresh for a summoner...so in my eyes.....

"Whats the point of -Status effects"

When we all know that it is for a "Stance trade off." The game has moved on and it needs to have "some" type of update to please the player base.

Please step off your high horse, and take a breath and respond with more respectful post, if you don't agree just say it, don't have to get all nasty as stated in from the OP.

Even if the -mp is irrelevant, the stat boosts are not. It's not a high horse, it's common sense. If you can't understand the concept of 'sacrifice one thing to get another', then you don't know anything about game design.

And clearly you don't.

[Soundwave]

the stat boosts are not.

Your just grasping at straws man, as for game design why not take your criticism/comments...start your own company and make your own perfect game?

Anyways

[Tarage]

Your just grasping at straws man, as for game design why not take your criticism/comments...start your own company and make your own perfect game?

Anyways

Because risk reward is grasping at straws. Tradeoffs are grasping at straws.

Hell, let's look at it your way. Let's get rid of the negatives on it. But why stop there? Let's get rid of perp cost all together under favor. Let's set the BP recast time to 0. Let's give avatars +200 stats.

I don't care how many times I need to say this: You have no idea how game design works. You have no idea what balance is. You have horrible ideas.

And for the record, your "go start your own company" is pathetic. One does not need to publish a 'perfect' game to be able to understand one. Much like a film critic need not have directed. Keep amusing me though.