Job Manifesto discussion RE: Summoner

[Karbuncle]

Unfortunately SE decided to not give Avatars Level 3 Skillchain properties at 75 because the 70 BP's were apparently too powerful for that kind of thing. It hardly makes sense at this stage of the game though.

Perhaps they will change that? I don't know about you But I'd take being able to do Light/Dark with PC/Rush with the offchance i mess up someones skillchain once in a blue moon, over the loss in potential damage from them not doing t3 Skillchains.

[Economizer]

Unfortunately SE decided to not give Avatars Level 3 Skillchain properties at 75

What really surprised me was that neither the Relic nor Mythic WS allowed a level 3. I was always under the impression that the Mythic WS, at least, was supposed to change up play for a job. For example, White Mage's Mystic Boon makes melee with a Club much, much easier to handle. Why shouldn't Garland of Bliss at the very least, allow a level 3 with a pet?

At this stage in the game, if there isn't already a level 3 skillchain for Summoner, there should be. In my opinion, it would have a much bigger impact on Summoner then merely adding more weapon skills, and would also be usable in party situations where the Summoner might choose the backline for whatever reason, instead of just buffing one part of the class. It is a win for everyone, except people who don't like Summoner, like the Star Sybil.

[Razushu]

They still can, unless something weird changed? I think the problem these days is that most of the physical Blood Pacts that chain either suck, or don't chain well for high damage at higher levels.

I don't think that giving Summoner native access to WS is necessarily the solution to making Summoner melee more viable. It doesn't necessarily feel right from a flavor point of view. First, it removes White Mage from being the melee mage (ignoring Red Mage and Blue Mage, since they melee with non-magey weapons). Second, it just encourages Summoner to weapon skill, not weapon skill with a Blood Pact, which feels more right.

Perhaps giving White Mage's staff weapon skills to Summoner is part of the solution, but better chains and physical blood pacts that make good chains should be a bigger part of the solution. It makes the Summoner work with the summon, and gives Summoner melee a unique feel, instead of being a gimp melee with a pet.

Summoner should be able to make level 3 self Skillchains with a pet (a quick glance of the skillchain calculator indicated this is not currently possible, but the thing is still limited to level 75). This would be a very good start.

Yeah the lower level ones can, I'm talking about the LVL70 ones, they're the ones we use to DD now yet they can't SC like the lower level ones. I'd like an ability that works like BLU's or SCH's SC ability, where a Blood Pact can take the place of a WS to close/open a SC.

We can get all the staff WS, we just need a /WHM, WAR, PLD, or MNK to use them, most jobs are in the a similar boat. They said somewhere they'er looking at WS access iirc, so we may see the backliners getting more WS. SMN melee doesn't need a boost it's fine for what it is, a mage meleeing. When talking about SC's I was more talking about party situations, as solo a SMN is probably fighting something a mage is not going to want to melee, let alone a SMN or any other mage if WSing will probably be using Spirit Taker or Myrkr.

SMN melee isn't probably going to get anything that gives it a "unique feel", because it's not a melee, anyway SE said they want us to rely on our Avatars to DD so it's unlikely that they're currently wondering how to improve SMN's(or any of the backline mage's) melee prowess in any way(other than maybe WS granting).

[Razushu]

Unfortunately SE decided to not give Avatars Level 3 Skillchain properties at 75 because the 70 BP's were apparently too powerful for that kind of thing. It hardly makes sense at this stage of the game though.

Perhaps they will change that? I don't know about you But I'd take being able to do Light/Dark with PC/Rush with the offchance i mess up someones skillchain once in a blue moon, over the loss in potential damage from them not doing t3 Skillchains.

Thats why maybe a seperate ability would be the best option, so we would never mess up a SC, we could only participate if we were trying to do it.

[Karbuncle]

Separate Ability might turn off the dev team though, i think it would be more work to make their Skillchain properties latent like BLU Spells. probably really complex.

Though I'm not against it, Just trying for simplest solution and hope for the best

[Dallas]

Raz, of the few adjustments se will consider, access to WS 70 levels above you is on the list. Stop feeling you need to control discussion of things above you. It can't be an argument if you aren't there, and let's face it, nothing gets accomplished when you are. Control yourself, because you are part of the problem.

I've already contributed to the solution.

[Razushu]

Separate Ability might turn off the dev team though, i think it would be more work to make their Skillchain properties latent like BLU Spells. probably really complex.

Though I'm not against it, Just trying for simplest solution and hope for the best

Just thowing it out there lol. Yeah it probably would be much harder for them to consider than just having them get native SC properties, but hey they gave a similar ability to SCH with their spells.

[Korpg]

Separate Ability might turn off the dev team though, i think it would be more work to make their Skillchain properties latent like BLU Spells. probably really complex.

Though I'm not against it, Just trying for simplest solution and hope for the best

It wouldn't be all that complex. Just have the 70 BPs be able to do skillchains of their element (Fragmentation for Chaotic Strike and Predator Claws, Distortion for Rush and Spinning Dive, Fusion for Flaming Crush, and Gravitation for Mountain Buster). Also, the next set of BP:Rs that the avatars get that are physical damage, make them level 3 SC based on their element with the off chance of doing the level 2 SC based on their element.

[Korpg]

Raz, of the few adjustments se will consider, access to WS 70 levels above you is on the list. Stop feeling you need to control discussion of things above you. It can't be an argument if you aren't there, and let's face it, nothing gets accomplished when you are. Control yourself, because you are part of the problem.

I've already contributed to the solution.

I'll contribute to the solution also. You should delete your character cause you are 99% of the SMN's problem.

[Karbuncle]

It wouldn't be all that complex. Just have the 70 BPs be able to do skillchains of their element (Fragmentation for Chaotic Strike and Predator Claws, Distortion for Rush and Spinning Dive, Fusion for Flaming Crush, and Gravitation for Mountain Buster). Also, the next set of BP:Rs that the avatars get that are physical damage, make them level 3 SC based on their element with the off chance of doing the level 2 SC based on their element.

I didn't say giving them Skillchain properties would be complex, I said giving them "Latent" Skillchain properties like Blue Magic spells only being able to skillchain under "Chain Affinity" or their 2hour would be complex.

At the very least more complex than just giving them the skillchain properties...