FINAL FANTASY XI Job Adjustments Manifesto: Paladin

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

RDM, NIN, WAR... they've all had their uses as tanks here and there, but they all also had other options (back-line, puller, DD, etc.)

PLD, it's tank or nothing. Nobody has ever told a PLD "Oh, we already have a tank, but can you ______ for us?" Ever.

[Ryx]

Where to start, where to start... Let's go with this: Voidwatch.

Voidwatch's Tier IV NMs are NOT friendly for non-Plds to tank. Voidwrought: All attacks are AoE TP moves, the regular hits have enstun, enamnesia, or knockback depending on the motion, just like abyssea. Celaeno: Regular attacks are AoE TP moves, some of them even radial depending on the attack motion. Basically ALL of her TP moves are AoE / bypass shadows, and basically always casts -ga or -ja, very rarely casting a single-target spell. Hahava: Again, regular attacks are AoE TP moves. Alternates between Yaksha (physical stance) & Raksha (magical stance) for the nature of its TP moves and reduction of damage by 50%. Uses Raksha Vengence (moderate~heavy magic dmg AoE + weakness) & Yaksha Oblivion (Heavy Physical damage AoE, inflicts all stats-110) < 50% HP for its killer moves. Here's the thing: Vengence isn't *that* hard to stun, and Oblivion's blockable.

Now as a paladin, I am NO gauge of their accuracy, see: "Paladins don't evade, the mob whiffs", but when regular attacks cannot be countered, and take multiple shadows, I can't see Nin or Mnk tanking being all that viable. If their accuracy is low enough for a skilled evasion tank to handle them...I would be disappointed, given the rest of their difficulty, so I'm going to assume it's high enough to rule out evasion tanking.

I'll also reference Belphoebe, the T3 Pixie in Jugner, which uses her TP moves in a very specific order: Spring > Summer > Autumn > Winter Breezes > Cyclonic Turmoil > Norn Arrows. Norn Arrows is RAPE to a non-Ochain PLD. We're talking HEAVY physical damage to anyone within twenty yalms + Encumberance if you live. It's blockable, hence Ochain's defense against it, reducing the damage and prevents said encumberance from taking effect.

Now I know people are crying "But that's only one event, and there's not even much in the way of worthwhile gear that comes from it" blah, blah, blah. Voidwatch represents what Paladin NEEDS to be useful again: Challenging mobs that DDs are incapable of tanking. Did it occur to any of you that some of what SE has said about Pld is that they plan to improve our defensive capabilities? I'm not happy about their refusal to buff our offensive either, but the fact is that I see them enhancing our survivability to handle new challenges coming down the line. Challenges that your abyssea-spoiled "tanks" will get slaughtered. I'm honestly pleased to say that voidwatch is challenging to me, despite being one of the rare Almace/Ochain Paladins who DOESN'T let his Empys tank for him. I swear, it makes me shudder at how many Ochains I see fall into the hands of people who don't even swap gear, let alone know how to use proper MDT/PDT sets, because you NEED them in Voidwatch. Fighting the T4s, I can say that Ochain's auto-pilot is NOT enough.

The point I'm making is this: Right now, Voidwatch is the only *hard* event. There will be more Voidwatch, and there will be more *hard* content events down the line (I hope). I just don't think SE wants to release the rest of them right now, on the grounds that we're not 99 yet, and if they release it prior to 99, that means it'll be easier at 99, or scaled to be impossible prior to it. I'd rather see them release more content (beyond Voidwatch) AFTER the 99 cap, so they can gauge how powerful it needs to be in order to present a worthy challenge.

You cannot ask to compete with Mnk & Nin in abyssea, there's NO point to doing it. You cannot ask to compete with Empy DDs without an Empy yourself. Am I saying you NEED an empyrean to do your job? No. But if the DDs have them, why don't you? Almace is NOT hard to get, especially the 85 form. It makes me sick to see an Ochain without one, when Almace takes NONE of the time to obtain in comparison.

I remember sky party on statue golems at Ullikummi camp, and decorative weapon camps. Those were the days when people expect PLD to gear up defensively for one sole purpose. Tanking.

That's what we call "The Dark Ages" when nobody knew any better. I was already having my doubts about the turtle garbarge at this point when I saw my Drg/War taking hate off a Pld/War in full crapdaman, loaded up on Enm+ & an earth staff with just my regular hits on golems in Ulli camp. Paladin tanking in full AF1...the reason nobody realized just how bad it was at the time, was because the DDs sucked pretty hard back then as well, and provoke + flash + cures were enough to make up for your worthless gear choices in regards to holding hate.

We are aware that paladins are having a difficult time when damage dealers push the limits of their abilities in battle and we plan on making adjustments so that it’s easier for paladins to grab the focus of a target. However, since it would quickly become boring and lack any sense of challenge if party members were able to fight without fear of enmity as long as a paladin is present, it will be necessary to take into account the proper enmity balance between every role in party situations.

THANK YOU! To all of you people who keep BEGGING for an exclusive higher hate cap, or the ability to lock hate on yourselves, read this message as a colossal middle finger from the dev team. I support the notion of skill remaining an IMPORTANT factor of battle.

What about some "Enhances Provoke" or "Enhances emnity" gear to be used when using provoke or flash.

It's called "Enmity+" gear for provoke and "Fast Cast + Haste + Enmity+" gear for flash. I provoke in Enmity+54 in gear and cast flash in Haste+21%, Fast Cast+9%, and Enmity+38 in gear.

On that note: Provoke is NOT a deal-breaker. It helps a little, but it's nothing crucial. If you think you need provoke to hold hate, you're doing it wrong. If you think provoke would help you hold hate better...only when the mob goes running after the mages until you can catch up, WS on it, get it back over to where it's supposed to be. If you think you can tank most NMs /war without Ochain...get off Paladin. The majority of this game, people have tanked on Pld/NIN. Combination of Shadows + Shield blocks to help control overall damage mitigation.

Overall, it boils down to this: Paladin is only as good as the person playing it. SE isn't going to take balance out, and let non-empy Plds tank over empy-DDs, or non-Ochain Plds survive super tanking the world /war. Know your limits, and always strive to do better. "But Nin and Mnk take less damage than we do..." It sounds like SE intends to fix this by raising our defensive abilities, together with more challenging content that WILL make their tanking methods less effective.

That's my two gil on the matter, /rant off.

[Defiledsickness]

I see so basically it sounds like if you don't have a shield with ridiculous block rate and absorption rate (hi aegis/ochain) you're not that much better off than any other job...

Is your PLD a non-Aegis/Ochain PLD? If so do they /NIN or /WAR?

I'm trying to find out how accurate my guesstimated order of tank preference would be. I would take the questions to PMs as they aren't really on topic necessarily but I can't

one of our paladins does have ochain but its not required. simply the pld job is great for VW. one of our members leveled PLD in abyssea from 30-90, went and skilled up a bit, then tanked Hahava. Not saying any random pld can perfectly tank these nms, they require skill and teamwork. but pld seems to be the tank of choice, if not the only usable one. personally i've never seen any other job tank these monsters (we even use weakened pld's over the other DD's there). I took over a few times as Dnc and we've had a Nin tank the Briareus mob (Teir1) but this is more of a last ditch effort and usually involves temp items like Fanatics drink.

but as was just said, pld is only pld and if you aren't needed then you better have another job leveled.

[Defiledsickness]

oh ya pld is also awesome for the new BC's. Kindred Crest 50 i think, with the dragons similar to Ying and Yang from dynamis - xarcabard. we had a pld tank the one that spams horrible moves and a nin tank the easy one. nin with full AF3+2 and a proper eva set are pretty awesome blink tanks. but a simple aga will whipe all your shadows (and mobs that have normal atks that are aoe like shinryu, are not well tanked by nin.). this BC can prove to be difficult, but with our setup it was very easy (the pld healed himself i only gave him refresh and haste, which were whipped off constantly).

and i mentioned another pld-tank event; Shinryu. it probably hasnt taken anyone 1 try to get the twilight body, so i call this an event. (though mnk isnt a bad blood-tank in abyssea, as long as you do enough dmg to keep the whm's alive).

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Voidwatch represents what Paladin NEEDS to be useful again: Challenging mobs that DDs are incapable of tanking.

Even if, that gets us from 0/18 PLD to 1/18 PLD, and that's a big "maybe."

"Sorry, we already have a tank. Got any other jobs?"

Yes, I'm not the game's best PLD, and yes, the best gear I run around with is a joytoy and some mission loot, but... personally, PLD hasn't struck me as particularly useful in group settings since around level 70. Maybe you'll need 1 (one) in runs involving 18-64 players, and that one PLD will be the one with Excalibur in one hand and an Aegis in the other. Not "one per party" or even "one per alliance," one.

Really, the Abyssea problems PLD has I see as little more than an extension of the melee-burn merit point party, just writ large. Who needs a tank when a "first voke" is more than enough, especially when the voker can actually, y'know, cause damage?

Anyway, I'm tempted to say that PLD won't be "fixed" until one or the other of the following becomes true:

1. People are willing to accept a PLD as anything other than tank. DD, healer, I don't care, but some other role for which a group might want more than one of.
2. PLD is actually a useful subjob. If the defensive cabailities are so useful and important (and unique to PLD), then it should theoretically be useful as a sub as well.

[Unleashhell]

Okay I usually just sit back and read these forums and try to not have my head explode from the poor understanding of the job by the box burned people and or smn burned PLD's that seem to camp this forum. To those PLD's that actually xp'ed the job and by xp'ed the job I mean leveled it without the aforementioned horribleness as well as syninc it to 75 back in the day.

First off its not SE's fault that you don't have a cure kit build or enmity build for all of your actions towards mobs. Instead of being angry because everyone doing an empy weapon caps hate faster than you. Please get off your ass and use the time you spend here bitching to get an Alamce. Not a WoE ODD doesn't exist weapon an actual Almace where ODD Crits reach 500-600 dmg per swing.

Have all abbysites don't care how long you think it will take you just get them all. Get all atma's needed for getting Savior. By getting these you will have all important Atma's need for the next step. Use appropriate Atma's for CDC build. Either RR,GH, Apoc or RR, Savior, Apoc hell even Omni, RR, Apoc-- I think you get the idea.

Once that is done use actual dex + str + atk gear swaps--- for the love of all things sacred stop ws in the same gear you tank in and than bitch it sucks. In fact stop never changing gear period. If your not blinking enough to give your whm a seizure your not playing the job right. I do have sets for when I don't want my shit pushed in by a HNM and I also have my capped haste tp set both are appropriate use when needed.

Lastly, stop asking for more ways to get enmity. It won't help unless PLD is allowed to surpass the hardcap aka. like with Burtgang passing - PDT cap or Aegis with -MDT cap. I could have 40 job abilities to give me enmity but with the gear PLD has already there is no need for more JA's for enmity. We have plenty at our ready if people would just learn to build their kits right instead of taking the fast lazy way out of begging SE for shit we don't need.

Sorry if this angers anyone but really I don't care, I am just tired of seeing horrible PLD's making legitimate hard working PLD's look like shit. That is all continue to whine now.

Like Button "Check"

[Ophannus]

Seriously, I don't even have an almace but I can still push at least 2k Vorpal Blades in Abyssea with the right atmas, food and gear with spikes at 2.8-3k.

[Cursed]

So, instead of improving Paladins, we should instead do less damage? That solves all of the problems.

And don't try to condescend to me about the "old days". I spent years in a tree trying to get a dragon. I was in the first NA group that ever killed Tiamat. I was in the first group that ever fought Jailer of Love who found out that it invincible. I know all about the old days.

if you're talking about BG, isn't it technically a JPNA shell, since Ed was JP?

[Zagen]

Seriously, I don't even have an almace but I can still push at least 2k Vorpal Blades in Abyssea with the right atmas, food and gear with spikes at 2.8-3k.

On anything a PLD can do 2k Vorpals as an average a MNK is doing 2k A. Fury, WAR is doing 3k+ Raging Rushes, DRG is doing 2k+ Skewer (3k+ with Drakesbane), NIN is doing 2k Jins, THF/DNC are doing 2k+ Evisceration, COR are doing 2k Leaden Salute, PUP Stringing Pummel for 2-3k, etc.

Before you come preaching about how 2k is impressive inside abyssea take a reality check and play with some better players and you'll see that a PLD's 2k Vorpals are good for laughs at best when compared to other DD's WS options before Emp weapons are even mentioned (well for some jobs sorry DRG your ws sucks I hear). Not only do other jobs out do our Vorpals but they TP faster, deal more DoT, and survive just as well if not better than a PLD can. There is no place inside abyssea for PLD it just can't do enough damage to keep up with every other job that can deal damage thus making it a sub par tank.

If content continues like Voidwatch then PLD will have a niche for most players. That said if that happens every player who thinks 2k Vorpals will keep PLD tanking will be crying about the game being too hard. If content continues like Abyssea then PLD won't have a niche for any players.

[Atomic_Skull]

If FFXI developers say they don't want to raise the enmity cap, then they should definitely rework the current Damage>Enmity conversion. I'm sure there is such a value somewhere in the FFXI formulae. Slightly adjusting this value would be much quicker and efficient that fine-tuning every single ability/ws/spell in the game, or creating new job traits/abilities to generate more/less enmity.

They should go back to the old pre 2006 system that only had volatile enmity. Somewhere in mid 06 they ninja patched the enmity system to it's current form. I remember it well because at Kirin that week the kiters could no longer keep hate off the RNGs. We all knew something had changed but we couldn't figure out what. Years later when the enmity system was finally figured out out dawned on me what had happened that week.