Suggestions to Improve/Rebalance Vanadiel's Divas

[Alaik]

So you'd happily use daggers on high level content (Read not abyssea) instead of a GK?

K.

[Byrth]

So you'd happily use daggers on high level content (Read not abyssea) instead of a GK?

K.

Ninjas use GKT a lot, I heard. Your idea is demolished by:
1) WS frequency is a large part of why SAM is good, which is mostly due to their STP traits because 450 delay sits in a TP/sec trough.
2) If we did get GKT skill, we still wouldn't have access to Yuki, Gekko, or Kasha. They're all Samurai Exclusive.
3) We have very limited STR gear selection for WS.

In short, yes. I'd rather use Dagger instead of using GKT to slowly spam crappy Jinpus.

Okay, so what about Great Axe? Raging Rush is WAR exclusive, Steel Cyclone is WSNM. Polearm? At least we could use Penta Thrust, but if we're talking about high level content it doesn't buy us much. Scythe and Great Sword? The good HNM WSs are DRK or PLD exclusive and we aren't on the WSNMs.

Our job receives a high level of dual wield and a lot of gear that specifically benefits Dagger usage. The good WSs from other weapon types are locked off from us. Even if we had an A- in everything, there would be no reason to use those weapons. Daggers aren't that bad for DPS, and Evisceration isn't that horrible of a WS against high level stuff either if you have a good build and can still cap dDEX.

[Alaik]

One, it's hypothetical. And as a rule, if you have an A- in a melee skill as a melee job, you get all the WS associated with such. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Secondly, TP trough? lol http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/File:Tpgain.jpg
Base TP gain for a 450 is about the same overtime taking only delay into account. Hasso's DA, haste and the sTP you'd get from SAM would be superior. Especially since any DNC who actually came DNC to events like Jailers, Kirin, etc at 75 would know hitting for 0 (Thus gaining 0 TP) was an issue, even if you somehow managed to get support, with stellar gear.

Capping dDEX? So did you misunderstand where I said not abyssea/meripo trash and said higher level endgame content? The stuff like jailers, kirin, kings, etc we had at 75 that SE said will be closer to 99's endgame than abyssea?

I thought I specified that. Also, I really don't know why you're bringing up multihits. There's a reason good DRKs used GS over scythe on higher end stuff. Spoilers: Look up pdif boost.

[Byrth]

You don't get Hasso DA from sub, 450 delay is the lowest TP/sec until 600+ based on the graph you linked, it's possible to cap dDEX on non-trash mobs in an Evisceration build, and jobs with an A- skill don't necessarily get all the WSs (Paladin and Hexa Strike, for instance). Also, I listed every WS with a pDIF boost in the previous post and pointed out that they were job-specific.

Regardless, this is a meaningless conversation in an otherwise good thread, so I'm going to stop it.

[Camate]

Greetings dancers! Here is some feedback from the development team in regards to your comments about the job adjustments concepts. Enjoy

Add new modes for dancers. Add dances that give sphere effects.

Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.

Make it so Waltzes don’t all share the same timer.

We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.

Reduce the recast timer on Waltz. (Especially higher tier Curing Waltz and Healing Waltz)

Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.

Make it possible to use Healing Waltz on people outside of your party.

It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.

Increase the effect of Animated Flourish.

We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.

Increase the accuracy for Desperate Flourish.

We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.

Make it so you can perform level 2-3 skill chains with Wild Flourish.

Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.

Make it so you can stack steps over level 5.

This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.

Lengthen the effect duration for steps.

We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.

Make it so you can generate two finishing moves even after you have reached level 5.

It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.

Make Chocobo Jig an AoE effect.

Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.

Make it so you can overwrite Spectral Jig.

Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.

[DebbieGibson]

The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.

Do you understand how the game works? 99% of the time one of steps will be more useful than the others, there's usually no point in doing anything but trying to cap the one that is currently needed.

[Coldbrand]

TLDR: Nope.jpg

[Byrth]

Since sphere effects are extremely strong and completely negate the opposite enfeebling effect, we won’t be implementing the sphere effect itself. However, we are planning to add something that gives your party members some kind of effect while continuing to consume your TP. As we are not at the stage where can give info on specific effects, we would love to hear your ideas.

You should make all our current Sambas into Sphere effects so that we can provide them to party members that are fighting different monsters. While you're doing that, you should fix the Sphere effect code so that the person with the Sphere also receives its benefit.

We would need to completely remake the system as it was originally balanced to have a unified recast timer with limitations placed on the amount of TP consumed. If we removed that, the cure capabilities of the job would be greatly enhanced throwing the balance off between other healing magic. If we were to split the Waltz timers, we would have to raise the TP consumption as a trade-off.

We don't need individual timers for each Waltz. Split the Waltz timers odd/even into Waltzes I and Waltzes II. We're limited by the amount of TP we can gain and the amount of TP that we give to monsters while we do it. Dancer could be a careful balance of these two forces if we weren't stuck for 20 seconds after each Curing Waltz IV.

Since Curing Waltz was designed to be different from Cure in the sense that it has advantages with short execution time and it is hard to interrupt, but on the flip side is difficult to use in quick succession, we do not have any plans to reduce the recast time further. Instead we wish for dancers to focus on specific tactics taking into account the levels of Waltz and use the most appropriate one for the situation.
Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.

It would be necessary to look into not only Healing Waltz, but also extending Erase to people outside of your party. In the case that we decide to extend the effects of Erase to people outside of your party, we will make it possible for Healing Waltz, too.

I assume that you answered the same question twice because it's often brought up by everyone that has ever had a passing association with the Dancer job. See the above response. You don't need to adjust the timers if you split them odd/even.

We are looking into adjustments for this. We are considering making it so you can generate the same level of enmity as Provoke when consuming two finishing moves.

I'm glad that you found something to say other than "no", but no one cares about volatile enmity (the kind that Provoke and Animated Flourish give).

We are exploring the direction of adding equipment that enhances the accuracy.

Again, Desperate Flourish has highly situational uses and really I can't make myself care about it. I'm assuming that this is going to be tacked on to the +2 version of AF2 body.

Comparing this to samurai’s Konzen-ittai, the recast timer is shorter and it has multiple uses so the effect itself was set rather low for balance purposes.

The difference between the two job abilities is that Wild Flourish is useless while Konzen-ittai is awesome. You either need to extend the duration of the Chainbound effect and let it work with Tier 2 skillchain elements, not extend the duration of the Chainbound effect and let it work with Tier 2/3 skillchain elements, or just give up on pretending to care whether this ability is relevant.

This would require us to look into the effects carefully. Since the effect of level 5 is currently very strong, we do not have any plans of increasing this at the moment.

You should double the potency without increasing the number of levels. Box Step 5/5 is a joke compared to Dia II, let alone Angon, Acid Bolts, or anything that matters.

We are looking into the direction of making it so the duration gets longer at higher levels.

Nice to hear, but then we'll run in to . . .

It can be thought that the fundamental problem here is that in order to maintain the effect of the step you need to continuously use the same step. First we will revamp the step effect duration and determine how many times you can use a step in a single battle, and then make a decision based on that.
The idea is to be able to fight by using a variety of steps and not using the same one over and over just to maintain its effect.

If you increased Step duration and failed to make the suggested change here, we'd have to rotate between 3 steps instead of 2. Considering we only have two worthwhile steps (and I only have macro space for 2), I'd rather not see either of these changes happen. The minor benefit we'd gain on hard fights where we want to keep step potency capped would be offset by the reduced FMs and damage output.

Since there is no cost for Chocobo Jig the effect is set to be only for the dancer.
In the event that we were to extend the effect to party members, there would be some room to explore this if there were TP consumption or some other trade-off.

This is another change that I can't make myself care about, but it's silly to deny us AoE Jig when you have Bolter's Roll and Chocobo Mazurka. Chocobo Jig freezes us in place for a long enough time that it's equivalent to Mazurka or Roll, so I'm not sure how you can claim that it shouldn't be AoE.

Please understand that this is the same as magic and items and it is following the rule that in order to re-apply the effect you need to remove it first.

We understand that Sneak doesn't overwrite itself, but why not change that? Apart from being annoying, it's unclear what purpose it really serves.

[Francisco]

Why not just increase the duration of Spectral Jig?

I sub DNC from time to time on my MNK, and the rate at which Spectral Jig wears off is pretty infuriating.

[Purpleeyes]

Could you at least CONSIDER separating Healing and Curing Waltz if you won't implement something like the WaltzI/II suggestion from Byrth.

Similarly for Healing Waltz, since it is possible to address a large variety of status ailments covered by na-related spells and Erase, the recast timer was set to be somewhat long.

Except for the fact that what it removes is completely random. When you're covered with five different thing and paralyze is one of them, there's a good chance paralyze will wear off before you even get a chance to get rid of it, thus totally wasting your time during that entire period. Not to mention you have to choose between curing (which can get paralyzed, therefore goodbye healing waltz for the next 10 seconds) and healing yourself.