Suggestions to Improve/Rebalance Vanadiel's Divas

[Suirieko]

What a great idea. I support this!

[Asymptotic]

I have added A LOT to the first post.
I'd like to hear thoughts on what I've posted.

Thanks!

[Troupe]

I think the idea for 2 new stances are excellent, everything you mention would make DNC so much more desirable at end game events as we move forward.

I really love playing DNC like no other job in FFXI and I really hope SE puts together some exciting adjustments like those above.

[Dijana]

I feel like SE never looks at the individual job forums, but then I dont look at many myself, so I wouldnt know. Moving on~
I really like these ideas, alot of people throw around ideas on how to 'fix' dnc, as well as every other job, though alot of them really are just overpowered or people wanting everything. (Im looking at you melee smns), these are probably some of the best ideas I've seen.

I like being able to solo on dnc, in groups I usually tank on it, but I know it was designed to be a support class and it never feels like its never considered for groups for that reason. All I keep seeing is SE giving useless/situational flourishes, although the one thing I would like more than anything is a dispel of some kind. Here's hoping someone sees and considers your ideas! I think they're awesome

[Insaniac]

While your DD buffs are pretty reigned in I think DNC already puts out too much damage considering everything else it can do. I'm not suggesting a direct nerf but buffing the other aspects of the job and encouraging you to trade more of your DD potential to support other DDs would be the most balanced type of change to the job.

[Korpg]

Disclosure Warning: I'm not a DNC, I got it to 49 and glad that is staying there for a while. This post may seem a little biased, and I'm sorry, I'm going to sugarcoat it as much as I possibly can.

To the OP: Your ideas are sound, and I agree with 95% of what you say, there are, however, a few points I want to make out to you.

Point 1: Dancer was never meant to take the place of a WHM. What you are asking is to take the place of a WHM, which, I think, would be a great insult to everyone out there. Be glad, however, that you guys are the second best healer in this game, and I personally would fight with you to get your waltz timers separated and Waltz V lowered dramatically. I have seen what a DNC can do, and I think you guys are a godsend for the times there is no extra healers out there.

Point 2: A Raise dance would be worthless in my opinion. I say this for two reasons, one of which is, how can a dance raise the dead? Kicking the dead guy in the nuts? I mean, come on now. Second reason is, the cost to raise a person will be very high, and therefor would probably take away 150% or greater TP away from you. Which means that you have to put yourself at a higher risk (unless you are have moves and/or a fresh timer for No Foot Rise) to raise a person. Plus, wouldn't an instant Raise also hurt the WHM and/or you, the DNC? The dance would most likely be a Waltz, and since Waltzes are global timers, to counteract multiple raises, the recast on Waltzes may be over a minute, possibly two. A Reraise dance might work, but again, that would most likely be considered a Jig, in other words, only for the DNC.

Other than that, you have made some really good points and I hope that SE looks into this very closely.

[Asymptotic]

As for the Raise dance, I admit I had no idea how to implement it in a balanced manner. The initial argument of "how can a dance raise the dead" is a moot point, because how then, can a dance heal wounds or remove status effects? The idea of the dancer class is that Dancers "weave their dances with forbidden magicks," and there are various cultural death-and-rebirth related dances which could be referenced in the ability. I am personally apathetic to to the idea of a raise dance, but there is a huge outcry from the playerbase - on all sides of the language spectrum for such an ability. A reraise ability would have to be short duration, like Hymnus, something you put up when "you know you're going to die," not "just in case you die," as a White Mage would use.

Dancer is also not currently the second best healing class in the game: BLU -mysteriously - holds that honor. Don't believe me? Magic Fruit blows RDM and SCH's un-JA-boosted Cure IV out of the water and BLU has access to both Erasega and abilities to reduce the frequency of TP moves.

Additionally, I never suggested that Dancer should take the place of a White Mage. Although, I would make the argument that, the more powerful White Mage gets, the less desirable DNC becomes as a healing/support class. I don't think that giving a Dancer the ability to reduce recasts and costs of waltzes would make the Dancer class better than White Mages, especially considering that anyone using Dancer as a support job has access to the all of the "only waltzes a Dancer ever uses." As Byrth has pointed out, the CHR/VIT modifiers of waltzes are so pointless that even the nerfed sloping coefficient for the Dancer support job doesn't make much of a difference in how much a Curing Waltz III heals.

Ultimately, I was simply making the point that for DNC to be "effective," Square-Enix needs to either:

1.) Choose a category: Healing, Support, DDing and focus on improving that area or
2.) Give Dancers the ability to enhance abilities on one side at the expense of the other (think Scholar or Ninja).

I personally believe the "two-stance" approach is the most interesting, and balanced approach. There are a few more ideas for support job abilities that I've had, and I'm probably going to add them as addenda to the original post, in hopes of providing the devs with "inspiration."

Dancer is a job that, while a powerful solo class, is designed for enhancing group play (hence why almost all of Dancer's abilities stack with other jobs' abilities for a more powerful effect), but at this point in the game, most of them -- even the once legendary Haste Samba -- have lost their potency.

Recent updates, in particular the buff to Climactic Flourish, have greatly increased the Dancer's ability to function as a damage dealing class, however, outside the Atma-empowered atmosphere of Abyssea, even these buffs are far from enough to inspire groups to "seek out" the Dancer class when deciding on a setup for a particular event. Obviously, a DNC should never compete with the likes of a WAR or SAM on the damage front, but it should be able to pull its own weight. Like many jobs in FFXI, the Dancer class is lacking a "killer app," so to speak.

This post is obviously meant to be a response to multiple posts, I apologize that I did not organize it or order it into direct responses, but I believe I have covered all of the points which were brought up by responses.

[Asymptotic]

The forum seems to have been ninja-updated with a 10000 character limit on posts, so I am no longer able to update Post 1.
However, I will add addenda to post #3, just under Byrth's post.

Sorry for any inconveniences.

[Byrth]

The forums have always had a 10000 character limit, I think. BG is the same way. I need to re-read the first posts with your new improvements, but last night in Salvage I was thinking about this and came to the conclusion that I really don't have any more space for more JAs in my macros. Pretty soon I'm going to have to start using the /macro set __ command just to have a single working macro book. Also, I'd like to see traits rather than JAs whenever possible because JAs have associated activation time that I'd like to avoid.

[Asymptotic]

I don't have most of my JA's macro'd.
I have Waltz III-V macroed as well as healing. I don't have steps or presto macroed, I find it easier to use those through the menu since step accuracy gear is useless anyway.

I'll have to rework my macros later today, most likely. 40/50 Itzpapalotl Scales. Upgraded Twashtar will definitely call for a macro re-do XD