How to play Summoner

[Neonii]

I see a lot of folks on these forums stating others don't know how to play summoner. So I would like to see your viewpoint on how summoner should be played. There must be some hidden knowledge that only a few summoners know so please share. This is not a troll thread I really want to know what these statements are based on. IMO most smn have a nice working knowledge of the job and what is their individual play style is. But on the other hand, that statement keeps popping so please share.

[Korpg]

It all comes down to viewpoint of how a SMN should be played.

There are pretty much 2 types of viewpoints when it comes to SMN. Well, 2 extremes.

On the left side, you got the melee only stance. Otherwise known as the Dallas approach.

On the right side, you got the mage only stance. Otherwise known as the Raz approach.

Which one is better also depends on the person's playstyle. The left side is most dependent with parties while the right side can be very self-sufficient.

The argument here is generally which one is better. To be honest, neither are the best, and neither are the worst. They both have their niches, and both excel at the setup at hand.

Want a challange? The SMN would be the soloist. Want to be included with others? The SMN would be the party-ist.

There are those, however, who state that they are the best damage dealer in the game. Those are the ones you would ignore, like people in the street stating the world is going to end or want you to join their religion.

[Razushu]

It all comes down to viewpoint of how a SMN should be played.

There are pretty much 2 types of viewpoints when it comes to SMN. Well, 2 extremes.

On the left side, you got the melee only stance. Otherwise known as the Dallas approach.

On the right side, you got the mage only stance. Otherwise known as the Raz approach.

Which one is better also depends on the person's playstyle. The left side is most dependent with parties while the right side can be very self-sufficient.

The argument here is generally which one is better. To be honest, neither are the best, and neither are the worst. They both have their niches, and both excel at the setup at hand.

Want a challange? The SMN would be the soloist. Want to be included with others? The SMN would be the party-ist.

There are those, however, who state that they are the best damage dealer in the game. Those are the ones you would ignore, like people in the street stating the world is going to end or want you to join their religion.

Hey.. I never said SMN should never melee. SMN melee like any other mage meleeing is about picking your battles, only do it when it's safe, worth it and not a hinderance/liability to the party. I've said somewhere here more than once that both have their place and melee is ok when the situation allows.

Mainly what I argue about are the outrageous claims of some people on these forums. Not that a mage should never melee. If you want to gear a mage for melee and play that way thats's fine, as long as you're careful and know what you're doing. I only really pop up and argue when someone says SMN does 80% of the damage a WAR does, or some other such crazy claim.

[Korpg]

Thought you wanted to get honored as the complete opposite of Dallas....sorry

[Razushu]

Thought you wanted to get honored as the complete opposite of Dallas....sorry

Although it is nice to have my good works recognised. I only act like that when making fun of him lol. The rest of the time I try to atleast pretend I'm a reasonable human being. Thanks for the compliment though. I just don't want to start another argument with someone who thinks I'm a "MAGE MELEE GTFO /RAGE" kind of guy, it's harder to have real discussions with normal, sane player's that way.

[Neonii]

Personally I don't believe there is any one way to play summoner. I think it depends on the individual play style and objectives of the player at any given time.

[Vangoh]

This topic is just way too controversial and frankly there isn't or should be a manual on how to play a job because every single person has their own fighting style.

[Malamasala]

I think I got the most advanced view of the job you can find. So if you got a few moments to read it, here it is.


1. Main job

Summoner as a main job, has only two choices of play style. One is to go up and melee along with your pet, the other is to stand at a safe distance and let your pet do all the work. In other words, there is an active and a passive choice to play. I advocate active play, because I enjoy it.

2. Melee role

The melee role is very similar to PLD, DRK and BLU. Because you have reliance on MP, you'd easily feel the need to be constantly refreshed. But since you have anti-refresh, called perpetuation, the job is more advanced than all of those jobs. You will most certainly need to regain MP from another source than refresh. Spirit Taker, Myrkr, Siphon, Convert are all good ideas to have if you intend on meleeing. Which is why melee is very rare at low levels and new Summoners easily get the impression we do not belong in melee range. When you finally get these tools, you are usually so behind in skill that you'll get the impression that melee will never work.

There are two goals with melee on SMN.
A) To replenish MP
B) To fill up dead time with action

I consider additional damage from melee to be more of a bonus than the actual cause to melee. That is however my opinion with no staff having over 60ish DMG rating among the ones I tend to swing. If I get my hands on an Empyrean I might give a revised opinion, though I won't consider it "standard mage gear" for a Summoner.

3. Armor sets.

My current armor set for meleeing is not that impressive, but it is a work in progress.

Pole Grip: 2% DA
Tiphia Sting: Accuracy +2, Attack +2
Selenian Cap: Accuracy +13, Pet haste +5%
Peacock Charm: Accuracy +10
Brutal Earring: 5% DA, STP+1
Hollow Earring: 2 Dex, Accuracy +3
Caller's Doublet +2: Perp -4
Caller's Bracers +2: Perp halved, Avatar accuracy up
Evoker's Ring: Perp -1
Adler Ring: Accuracy +8, Attack -12
Aesir Mantle: 1% DA, Attack +8
Swift Belt: Accuracy +3, Attack -5, 4% haste
Stearc Subligar: +1 Refresh
Caller's Pgch. +2: Perp -3

Totalish:
-8 Perpetuation + "half of leftovers"
39 Accuracy
7% DA
4% Haste
-7 Attack

Nothing amazing, but it is worth observing it also gives 5% pet haste, and is designed for you to keep the pet out with you for low cost. There is also my "I don't care about perpetuation" set:

Danger Grip: Accuracy +5, Attack +5
Tiphia Sting: Accuracy +2, Attack +2
Hakke hachimaki: Accuracy +17, Attack +5
Peacock Charm: Accuracy +10
Yinyang robe: +1 refresh
Brutal Earring: 5% DA, STP+1
Hollow Earring: 2 Dex, Accuracy +3
Nashira Gages: 1% Haste, Perp -1
Adler Ring: Accuracy +8, Attack -12
Blood Ring: Accuracy +5
Aesir Mantle: 1% DA, Attack +8
Swift Belt: Accuracy +3, Attack -5, 4% haste
Hydra Brais: Accuracy +10
Nashira Crackows: 1% Haste

So totalish:
63 Accuracy
6% Haste
7% DA
3 Attack
-2 Perp

I'm as said, still working on what is a good setup. I'm not sure if 60 accuracy for a B rank weapon with 16 skill from merits is low, ok, or high. But it does work well for skilling up. This could obviously be improved by a better body, better feet and better hands. Less obvious if I should trade some accuracy for DA and haste. (If I ever bought ASA)


Now follows the second half of my Summoner "how to" opinions.

1. Sub jobs

If you don't mind relying on sub job, you can do many weird things that I consider simply un-summoner-like. You can for example sub WHM, keep a haste rotation and cure and -na party members. This is what many people think is the correct way to play, while it is simply ONE way to play.

My argument for it being an unnatural way to play, is that you could do this on other jobs also. BLU/WHM would do the same thing... but you don't see people play this way. DRK/WHM would also work... but you don't see people play this way. (I might be overplaying the potency of aspir for a DRK to go a longer time though.) You can also go PLD/WHM and do this... and again, people don't do this. For some reason BLU's want to melee, DRKs want to melee, and PLDs want to "melee" (but call it tank). Which is why the natural order of things is for a SMN to melee as well, it just suffers from a few issues at early levels, that manifest themselves at later levels.

That said, there is nothing wrong with playing SMN/WHM if you want to. SMN/RDM for keeping a refresh cycle is also allowed. It simply moves the focus from SMN to /XXX.

Some subjobs do however keep the focus on the SMN. Like COR sub to enhance your avatars (mostly useless combination), or SAM sub to gain TP faster while meleeing.

2. WHM the universal subjob

Sometimes it pays to be versatile. With WHM sub you actually do not just open up the choice to be a sub job based healer/support, you also have the option of accessing Cataclysm for dealing AOE melee damage. In addition you also got travel spells for moving around faster.

3. Last words

The most important part is that you like the way you play. After that it is mostly up to if you hang around with people who play for fun, or only play to finish content as fast as possible.

When I empyrean farm with the LS, it is the latter the counts, so no Summoner melee. If it just is some random thing we are doing, I might take the opportunity to whack the mob some. Usually I'm /WHM for versatility, because /SAM is often not flexible enough for my evenings.

[Korpg]

This topic is just way too controversial and frankly there isn't or should be a manual on how to play a job because every single person has their own fighting style.

Think of it like this:

<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
^Got to create some white space so ignore this line right about here. A little more just to ge^
Dallas styleGot to create some white space so ignore this line right about here. A littleRaz style

Your style is always in between the two. Between the two extremes. I find myself:

<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Got to create some white space so ignore this line right about here.^
Got to create some white space so ignore this line right about here.here

I'm very independent, but the few times I am in a party, I'm able to contribute my weight in gold. I mostly solo while I'm a SMN, and I strive to be a great SMN soloist.

[Korpg]

Malamasala is obviously an extreme on the Dallas part of the spectrum.

I don't understand how he is able to keep avatars out and lose the damage from BPs by meleeing and having melee specific atmas on.

But then again, that is what they want. They must do the 2-7k extra damage by meleeing alone by what my avatars do with MAB atmas. And I don't die as often as they do either! And I fight harder NMs too!