Any chances of raising the availability of Tier IV and AM1 scrolls?

[Tagrineth]

It is not hard to find a SMN to solo E-vase-ive Action KSNM30.

I went 1/4 on the scroll, ended up getting 1mil gil while "farming" that scroll.

I have 90 SMN myself. I have no doubt I could solo Evasive Action. The problem is, even if I get the drop... I dunno if I'd even want to use it. 1mil for a "trophy spell"? I'd rather put that toward a Grim Cuirass or something to that effect. :\

[Korpg]

@KORPG, I like how you compare wild onions a more than common drop item, with ultra(whether NM and BCNM) rare spell like Quake or AeroIV. If a NPC were to sell a scroll for 100k players could still farm the rare scroll or sell enough regular scrolls to buy one. There also nothing stopping players from making 99,999 Gil off these scroll.

You are correct, but knowing SE, they will set the price to about 20k or so, since spells at that level usually go for that much anyway. I used Wild Onions as an example because it is an item that is not purchasable from any NPC, and you either have to grow them, or farm them from gobbies, to sell them. I made it a point in showing that if you put all scrolls into NPC, that is going to make a lot of scroll farmers angry because they are now limited on how much to sell stuff, and some stuff might not be worth the effort it takes to farm the spells.

Playrs point to how easy it is to make Gil...but one of the easy ways of making Gil is charging a ridculous price for them in AH. Even when players try to drop the AH price forcing prices to go down Gil farmers just buy the "cheap" scroll and sell both at the exhorbinant price of 800k. Its called "Market Manipulation" or insider trading. Especially if this same groups are the only ones capitalizing camps and BCNM's.

Wait, I don't understand, if people buy the scrolls at a low price, and try to sell them at a higher price, what will keep others from buying the spells at the lower price? Unless somebody actually went and bought all scrolls of stone 1 for 10k, and charge you 100k for the scroll, what is keeping you from buying the scroll at 10k the next time somebody sells a scroll of stone 1? RMT isn't active now, so you can't blame this method as actual practice now.

Ever hear of supply and demand?

If anything, this is the problem with Captialism in real life as well. Why simply get rich, when I can get richer? Where and when is enough, enough? I used this example under the "utsmemi NI" discussion...if a merchant was the only one selling milk and he was charging $1,000 dollars a gallon how long before people tore him apart? 100k is more than reasonable for any spells and most items also.

...guess not. You are blinded by your own prejudices of a known method of life that you automatically blame everything on that one thing without understanding the nature of the system. People wouldn't sell milk for $1,000 a gallon before somebody sells a gallon of milk at $999 a gallon. Then the price will continue to go down as the supply of milk increases, until you hit (in perfect capitalism, which will never happen because of prejudices) a point where the cost of making the milk (raising the cows, labor, equipment, packaging, storage, etc) is equal to the price of milk.

You honestly think that everyone is making billions of dollars off of everyone else? Do you think that the price of gas is so high because of the gas stations are out to "milk" you for all you are worth, and then some? Or that the gas producing companies (you know, the ones that turn the crude oil into gasoline) are charging extraordinary prices because they are out to squeeze every dollar of cash out of you? I'm afraid it goes further than that. If you really want to blame anyone, blame OPEC. But that is besides the point.

The point being, stop being so narrow-minded that you can't look beyond the haze in front of you in life. People sell scrolls that high because of the time investment and demand of the scrolls, nothing more.

[Korpg]

I have 90 SMN myself. I have no doubt I could solo Evasive Action. The problem is, even if I get the drop... I dunno if I'd even want to use it. 1mil for a "trophy spell"? I'd rather put that toward a Grim Cuirass or something to that effect. :\

1 million gil on junk (and other sellables) + that spell. So basically, you can get about 2 million gil on 4 runs solo. Not bad, if you ask me. And minimal time investment too.

[Covenant]

On One hand you say the scroll is expensive because it's so hard to get, while on the other hand you say it's as easy as 3-4 BCNM's. Not taking into account whether or not your group goes with the "your orb your drop" or the "let's spilt everything 3 ways" even though it's a fair chance these are pickedup players that you may never have seen before and you expect them or yourself to be trust to sell everything and give each other fair shares.
I, of course knew I was giving an extreme example with the milk thing. I was just saying these scrolls prices have such a huge range 100k~800k that something is fishy. Normal economics aren't at play, if it were players would have seen a slow and steady climb in price not 100k or more price jumps.
I have also done these BCNM runs and spell farming runs and haven't come across a single scroll sometimes days at a time. Or in the case of BCNM, the drop went to someone else.

I tend to look at the market values in a general way. Namely, level to spell or a progression where higher spells become harder to "get" and cost more if available in NPC shops. Most of these "rare" scroll are around the 37-40 mark and if anything drain Gil from other items like ninjistu items and or other choices.

[Eeek]

Arcari, I do understand your frustration, but to an extent, it's always been this way for BLM. It's never been an inexpensive job to gear up, and part of gearing up BLM is dealing with the sticker shock on some spells. Every BLM, including myself, has likely spent millions on their BLM spells over the course of their BLM careers.

Hell, I spent something like 750k buying the level 86-90 nukes from an NPC right after I dinged BLM90. I wanted them right away for a LS event or something of that nature (I forgot exactly why).

[Solonuke]

I'm all in for making these easier to obtain or make them purchasable from NPC for more than tier 3 spells but lower than tier 5 spells. I really didn't enjoy farming tier 4 spells as Blizzard IV drops from ISNMs which I don't have any IS to do and it seems overall very low drop rate from normal mobs as me and a friend of mine spent 3-4 hours farming them with no drop with capped TH. I just don't think that those spells should be a road block for a starting BLM and you could probably end up spending at least 3 million gil at the current prices on only spells. For 3 million gil I could get pretty awesome gear on any job that don't have to use that money on spells. Raise III is like 1 million gil on my server and it doesn't do anything but giving a tad more hp and less exp loss than Raise II, yet it's incredibly easy to get if you have an evasion job. What if you had to do a KSNM that had NMs that resisted physical damage to learn "Blood Rage" on Warrior? Or a level 30 BCNM for "Flee" for your thief? Or a level 20 BCNM for "Dual Wield" on Dancer? Ninja is pretty useless without Utsusemi, so let's demand 1 million gil for each Utsusemi scroll and the Ni version of it is incredibly tedious to get and it just never seems to drop when I do it.

But then again BLM is probably the most valuable job on seal based NMs.

[Korpg]

On One hand you say the scroll is expensive because it's so hard to get, while on the other hand you say it's as easy as 3-4 BCNM's. Not taking into account whether or not your group goes with the "your orb your drop" or the "let's spilt everything 3 ways" even though it's a fair chance these are pickedup players that you may never have seen before and you expect them or yourself to be trust to sell everything and give each other fair shares.

I'm correct in both counts. The scrolls are expensive because they are rare drops (and not from the little "rare" symbol on the scroll. The scrolls are easy to get because all it requires from you is to either kill a weak mob, or fight a battlefield of monsters for a chance for it to drop. Who's really hurting on BSs now anyway?

I, of course knew I was giving an extreme example with the milk thing. I was just saying these scrolls prices have such a huge range 100k~800k that something is fishy. Normal economics aren't at play, if it were players would have seen a slow and steady climb in price not 100k or more price jumps.

Normal economics are in play, you just don't know normal economics at all. Demand for these scrolls are high, but the number of scrolls are low, so of course the price is high. When nobody wants those scrolls (see: Blizzard V) the price of those scrolls will plummet down to what you can get from selling the scroll to a NPC. You just think that economics are not in play because of your bias against Capitalism.

I have also done these BCNM runs and spell farming runs and haven't come across a single scroll sometimes days at a time. Or in the case of BCNM, the drop went to someone else.

Sorry about your bad luck. If you really want the scrolls for yourself (and not to sell) then I would suggest you farming the gil. I hear that cruor is a great way of getting gil.

I tend to look at the market values in a general way. Namely, level to spell or a progression where higher spells become harder to "get" and cost more if available in NPC shops. Most of these "rare" scroll are around the 37-40 mark and if anything drain Gil from other items like ninjistu items and or other choices.

Again, proof positive that you don't know how economics work. Just because something is of a higher level doesn't mean that they should be "rare" in that aspect. Level 37-60 scrolls are hard to get because you have to farm/buy from AH on almost all of them (Sleepga II, you got to quest it).

Also, lumping consumable items with your scrolls....yeah, you still don't know economics. You are comparing apples to kumquats.

[Korpg]

I'm all in for making these easier to obtain or make them purchasable from NPC for more than tier 3 spells but lower than tier 5 spells. I really didn't enjoy farming tier 4 spells as Blizzard IV drops from ISNMs which I don't have any IS to do and it seems overall very low drop rate from normal mobs as me and a friend of mine spent 3-4 hours farming them with no drop with capped TH.

You think it was easier for people who leveled BLM much earlier than you? I spent at least 10 million gil on scrolls for my BLM, and I leveled it after ToAU was released, so not only was it harder for me to farm, but harder for me to level too.

I just don't think that those spells should be a road block for a starting BLM and you could probably end up spending at least 3 million gil at the current prices on only spells. For 3 million gil I could get pretty awesome gear on any job that don't have to use that money on spells.

3 million? You got it easy. If you don't want to farm the scrolls, farm the gil.

Raise III is like 1 million gil on my server and it doesn't do anything but giving a tad more hp and less exp loss than Raise II, yet it's incredibly easy to get if you have an evasion job.

E-vase-ive Action KSNM. Find a SMN friend, one who can solo stuff, and sic them at it. By the time you get your scroll (on average) you will have 1 million of sellable stuff each. Think of all the BLM scrolls you can buy. And it only costs you 120 KS (on average).

What if you had to do a KSNM that had NMs that resisted physical damage to learn "Blood Rage" on Warrior? Or a level 30 BCNM for "Flee" for your thief? Or a level 20 BCNM for "Dual Wield" on Dancer?

2 of them are job abilities. Not spells. On both of those, they are for jobs that enhance the job without using anything. Well, you stop swinging for .5 seconds, I guess you can consider that as a cost. The last one is a job trait. I think you are confusing the three with BLU spells. Now there is a job you will like! No gil spent on getting the spells!

Ninja is pretty useless without Utsusemi, so let's demand 1 million gil for each Utsusemi scroll and the Ni version of it is incredibly tedious to get and it just never seems to drop when I do it.

Utsusemi: Ichi is a quested scroll. Very easy quest, you just have to put in a little effort to get it (fame 6 or so). But that last part, kindof makes me /facepalm. You know why? Because it almost sounds like you are demanding that stuff drops for you all the time.

But then again BLM is probably the most valuable job on seal based NMs.

Hence the prices for scrolls. More people leveling BLM, less scrolls on AH, higher the price. Simple economics people!

[Malamasala]

You are comparing apples to kumquats.

You can compare pretty much whatever you want though. It is only silly people who set up rules on what you can compare. "Rule 1: Can't compare chocolate to white chocolate.", "Rule 2: Can't compare women and men", "Rule 3: Can't compare brown and white eggs".

[Korpg]

Now you are just nitpicing my argument.