[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM Suggestions

[Swords]

Well do you always go in with a full alliance, with multiple jobs for each trigger, and/or each player wielding their own Empy Weapon? Or do you just outright kill without getting any triggers? Last I checked even the most seasoned players can have a miserable day with triggers, which can delay the rate of the monster being killed, but that's besides the point. Most groups pickup and otherwise kill the monster after all the triggers have been done, by which the ideal times to build TH are when people are looking for triggers, which means limit TP feed/DoT on a mob so it does not die or spam nasty WS's before the triggers are found.

I really think it's nice that your arguments always seem to have some hole in them, where you try to argue one point and seemingly throw the other logical considerations out the window, even consider the overall flow of the battle as a whole, or treat every situation as though it were the same.

And I'm sorry you have such a difficult time getting a high TH build on any mob before it dies. Obviously the THF's or RNG's you play as/with should ante up, and I dunno "Suck Less".

[Aurara]

We get red for KI NMs, then kill it. If somebody wants seals we'll get yellow(depending on the mob) otherwise we proc red and then kill. We usually take between 7-9 people in(granted sometimes half of those are dualboxed) abyssea. NIN NIN(both kannagi) whm(usually me) whm(dualboxed) emp brd, blm and sometimes cor(sometimes me or if we have 2 mule whms) and then a mule war for red procs+thf for TH. This is for apademak of course, and sometimes we don't even have a brd at all. I can assure you the last thing my group needs to do is "suck less" as you claimed, that's your job because you obviously need the TH so bad you bring a RNG and a THF(and granted thf does it much faster and usually by the time you get TH9 the mob is dead so why bring rng unless they are just extra?).

[Reiokyu]

I really hate to be the one to bring this up but...what happened to the original purpose of this thread? It seems to have changed back to so many of the bickering threads I have read throughout these forums. It may be too much to ask, but can we get back on topic please?

[Zatias]

I really hate to be the one to bring this up but...what happened to the original purpose of this thread? It seems to have changed back to so many of the bickering threads I have read throughout these forums. It may be too much to ask, but can we get back on topic please?

^This.

This forum has turned into a trolling flamefest. What happened to just being nice, ignoring dumb comments and moving on with it. If the person you are attacking is wrong, then let them be wrong >.>

About my "Composure: Grants Double Attack" idea, you wouldn't be doing this on HNMs. Seriously lol. The double attack would just be more of a TP feed. I am just saying, we are fighter-mages, we SHOULD get better melee traits.

And yes RDM should get Cure 5 back. Even outside of Abyssea Cure 4 is pretty lackluster and wont always save a life ; ; RDM Cure V wont destroy WHM; we don't get Cureskin OR as much Cure potency.

[Greatguardian]

I'm not sure if most people even remember this far back, but RDM didn't just lose Cure V out of nowhere. They traded it for Dia 3, which used to be a WHM-exclusive non-merit spell. I play both, and I'd be totally fine with Rdm getting Cure V if Whm got Dia 3 back. Whm's active support options are actually extremely limited compared to Rdm (specializing in passive support over active support). It'd be pretty neat.

[Seriha]

Traded it for Dia III? Group II merits didn't even exist by the time FFXI hit the States, and Cure V was gone by then. If I recall correctly, it was more like RDM had been listed on it in the DATs much like we see WHM for Addle, but the cap at the time hadn't reached that point when the game was JP only. Its poofing coincided with the slight bump in sword skill and moving Enfeebling up to A+. We also apparently lost Marksmanship, which seems like a strange holdover if you look to a past Bastok Campaign unit, but I'm kinda willing to let an aesthetic slide there given the whole Musketeer theme.

[saevel]

Traded it for Dia III? Group II merits didn't even exist by the time FFXI hit the States, and Cure V was gone by then. If I recall correctly, it was more like RDM had been listed on it in the DATs much like we see WHM for Addle, but the cap at the time hadn't reached that point when the game was JP only. Its poofing coincided with the slight bump in sword skill and moving Enfeebling up to A+. We also apparently lost Marksmanship, which seems like a strange holdover if you look to a past Bastok Campaign unit, but I'm kinda willing to let an aesthetic slide there given the whole Musketeer theme.

Greatguardian is pulling sh!t out of his neither regions. RDM was originally listed as being on Cure V / Regen II / Flash and Diaga II. Dispel / Gravity / Refresh / Phalanx didn't exist. Dia I / II / Diaga was divide magic. RDM's primary subbed /WAR or /WHM. RDM had a B in enfeebling magic. "End Game" was Rok and AF quests, the Healing Staff was considered the most epic WHM item in the game. The XP from 50 to 60 was 40K+ per level, and when you died you lost 10% of the required TNL with no cap. It was nothing for people to lose 5~15K on a bad day. Ninja was speculated upon like Geomancer and Time Mage.

And the only English speaking players were those like myself who was playing as an alt on my friends account with him doing the translation for me.

RDM had issues because it was considered a WAR-1 or a WHM-1, so to give it it's own identy SE changed the Dia line to enfeebling magic (this is why we have no divine spells), gave RDM refresh, dispel, gravity and phalanx. This is why either WHM or BLM get every enfeebling magic earlier then RDM, except those two spells. Upped RDM's enfeebling magic to A+ and thus was born the "RDM is master enfeebler" idea, master of exactly two spells. We competed with BRD's for the "support role" of "refresher", basically we were invited to refresh the WHM and BLM's because MP was incredibly precious. BRD's use to b1tch because they didn't get a 3mp/tick refresh combo till after 50, while RDM got it at 41. March wasn't even though of, and haste was kinda ignored. I'm talking last 2002 here after the JP PC release (Nov 2002). My original character was made shortly after I arrived in South Korea in March 2003, my room mate was Japanese American and spoke Japanese, thus greatly enabled me to experience the game although I needed him to translate everything for me and guide me along.

Then the big news, this first expansion client and native English client, and their going to raise the cap to 75. Everyone went nuts, RDM's thought they'd finally get Cure V / Regen II / Flash and Diaga II. Except when the update came we noticed, RDM wasn't on the scrolls anymore. And there was this sudden influx of all these English speaking newbs running around messing everything up. We thought the NA client would have it's own servers, not that they would be intermixed with the already developed JP servers. Outrage ensued and thus the "JP Onry" world began. This was October 2003, I had been playing about six months but due to my status as a "second character" on my friends account it was almost all limited to XP and messing around. A few months after the NA client was released I broke down and decided to make my own Character and thus Saevel on Lakshmi was born.

And that's basically the birth of the English Speaking FFXI. Anyone who tells you they were playing in English prior to RoTZ is being very economical with the truth. You could type in English characters, but all the menu's, Item names and NPC dialog was Japanese. NA Client and RoTZ was released together, and thus unless someone was playing on a friends account, nearly no NA's have any experience with RDM's original incarnation. This also is why the Brady guide had so many errors with the spell list, they went off data SE gave them from 02/03 but before SE changed that data at Zilart release.

[Greatguardian]

95% certain that Red Mage had Cure V still after NA release. If not, d'oh. But both spells caused a fair amount of uproar from the communities. White Mages were especially pissed since they definitely had access to Dia 3 for a while and then lost it when G2s were implemented.

I'm also 99% positive that my ye olde Bradyguide still lists RDM as having Cure V and Flash as late as 2004, though that thing has always been lulzworthy. I can go back and scour some update notes if it matters.

[Aurara]

Cure V and Flash for RDM were traded for Refresh

[Seriha]

Can't say it does since we've gone far, far, far longer without than it just suddenly poofing like SE made an oopsie.