Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Razushu]

So you are really going to pretend you have some sort of monopoly on avatar buffs because you are too lazy to level staff?

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee. It's a very simple concept, if it's not melee it doesn't count as melee contribution. Party buffs and Avatar damage will always be there front or backline. You can't use them to boost weak melee numbers, and hope nobody notices.

[Karbuncle]

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee. It's a very simple concept, if it's not melee it doesn't count as melee contribution. Party buffs and Avatar damage will always be there front or backline. You can't use them to boost weak melee numbers, and hope nobody notices.

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

[Leonlionheart]

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

BRD+COR+SMN+NIN+NIN+NIN

Marchx2(or with +4 March and Soulvoice March+Minuet)Blitzer's Roll+Crit Roll(or DA, or Attack)+Ramuh's Favor+That Ifrit's BP:W.

Lots o DPS

[Razushu]

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

The boost to our wards lately have been amazing, I hope they keep up the good work.

[Dallas]

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee.

I sure can, and I do. My pet deals damage which supplements my melee damage. It's called addition, and it's a pretty easy concept. My buffs add damage to all melee. "Add" is the verb form of "addition."

If you start today, I bet you could master addition before FFXI dies. Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

[Razushu]

I sure can, and I do. My pet deals damage which supplements my melee damage. It's called addition, and it's a pretty easy concept. My buffs add damage to all melee. "Add" is the verb form of "addition."

If you start today, I bet you could master addition before FFXI dies. Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

No they don't supplement your melee damage, they deal damage on their own. You also can't count buffs the other party members recieve into your melee damage. Avatars will deal the same damage if you aren't meleeing and you can still apply the buffs from there too. If you're ever going to justify SMN melee it needs to be from the melee alone. The only things that can count is your personal DPS, buffs you recieve from gear, spells and job abilities.

You can't use hastega on a party and then claim you're doing 15% of the damage. You're not they are you just gave them hastega. The BP hastega is not factored into your melee damage, the haste you recieve is though. Get it? It's a really simple concept.

Your posts are dumb already and not on purpose.

[Malamasala]

No they don't supplement your melee damage, they deal damage on their own. You also can't count buffs the other party members recieve into your melee damage. Avatars will deal the same damage if you aren't meleeing and you can still apply the buffs from there too. If you're ever going to justify SMN melee it needs to be from the melee alone. The only things that can count is your personal DPS, buffs you recieve from gear, spells and job abilities.

You can't use hastega on a party and then claim you're doing 15% of the damage. You're not they are you just gave them hastega. The BP hastega is not factored into your melee damage, the haste you recieve is though. Get it? It's a really simple concept.

Your posts are dumb already and not on purpose.

You keep making the same mistake yourself. If Dallas can't use his Summoner tools to advocate melee, then you can't use them to advocate backline play. That leaves the discussion at "Melee staff damage vs cures/-na spells".

And I'd say which of these are better, simply depends on party setup. You got a WHM? Go melee. You have no healing support? Please help cure.

I.e. Melee on Summoner when the situation allows it. Else it is like playing WAR and never tanking, because you think the job is only about doing damage. Most jobs can cover more than one role. (Don't try and tank on SMN though)

[Leonlionheart]

You keep making the same mistake yourself. If Dallas can't use his Summoner tools to advocate melee, then you can't use them to advocate backline play. That leaves the discussion at "Melee staff damage vs cures/-na spells".

And I'd say which of these are better, simply depends on party setup. You got a WHM? Go melee. You have no healing support? Please help cure.

I.e. Melee on Summoner when the situation allows it. Else it is like playing WAR and never tanking, because you think the job is only about doing damage. Most jobs can cover more than one role. (Don't try and tank on SMN though)

1. WAR can't tank, outside of getting cure bomb'd in abyssea (which I do all the time), in which case even SMN can tank. WAR's only real role is DD. Nothing else.

2. The situation that calls for SMN to be meleeing is only in EXP parties. Otherwise you are potentially causing harm to other players by feeding the mob needless TP, as SMN gets 0 Subtle Blow traits. Meaning 10tp per time you hit it. If you're hasted and geared correctly, and assuming you're hitting the target, it becomes a serious issue on mobs that like to AoE (Orthrus, Azdaja, Etc.) Now you will say that WAR, DRG, DRK, or SAM also have no native Subtle Blow, which is correct. The difference is the damage dealt per tp given. The ratio of damage dealt by WAR to TP given to mob is vastly different from that of SMN. The highest damage I've seen a SMN do with a staff is 400. RR+SS+MM Crit, on a blunt weak mob. That's 40:1. WAR on the other hand, can easily deal up to 1200 per hit, and even up to 2000. 120:1, or 200:1. This is all before factoring in WS's, which would increase the DMG:TP ratio of WAR, DRG, DRK, and SAM greatly. I think you are starting to see why SMN Melee really doesn't contribute.

3. Additional Cures are always preferred in my opinion, since it alleviates much stress on the WHM- even if the WHM's MP is fine. Cure VI does have a recast you know, and Curaga IV over and over will drain MP, even in Abyssea.

[Razushu]

You keep making the same mistake yourself. If Dallas can't use his Summoner tools to advocate melee, then you can't use them to advocate backline play. That leaves the discussion at "Melee staff damage vs cures/-na spells".

And I'd say which of these are better, simply depends on party setup. You got a WHM? Go melee. You have no healing support? Please help cure.

I.e. Melee on Summoner when the situation allows it. Else it is like playing WAR and never tanking, because you think the job is only about doing damage. Most jobs can cover more than one role. (Don't try and tank on SMN though)

SMN isn't a melee, just so you know. So meleeing is not something that you can or should expect to do in a party. As a non-melee melee you'll need to convince people that your melee is worth it. Predator Claws is not a case for SMN melee because you don't need to be engaged to do it. As such they don't factor into a case for mage melee.

Your melee damage needs to stand on it's own if you want to be accepted(I'm pretty sure you said somewhere that you only consider your melee damage a bonus, so this doesn't really apply to you). If you're doing 1/4 of the damage of a melee, you're not justifying a melee slot, and you can't start adding non-melee elements into it to make up the numbers.

My point is if you're going to justify a place up front you can't use tools that are available totally seperate to melee. For instance you can't say I'm hasting the party so as a melee I'm doing 15% of the party's damage.


I've said the bolded from the start.

[Korpg]

Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

But you are so good at it though. I mean look, Melee only SMN is probably the dumbest post ever. Right next to beating Ukon WAR and only Emp Staff has unlimited MP posts too.