Job Vision: Watch paint dry

[Dallas]

Tell us Raz, if my avatar's damage and buffs are not party contribution, why are you still a summoner?

How about we rephrase your bad fractions to "Dallas is approximately 25% of 3 people buffing a WAR superior to Raz?"

[Razushu]

Tell us Raz, if my avatar's damage and buffs are not party contribution, why are you still a summoner?

Not talking about party contribution. Avatar, buffs, heals etc. can be used backline, so they have no place in a discussion about melee. If you want to justify a mages place upfront with the big boys, you have to do it with your melee alone.You can't rely on anything you can do just as easily, if not more so from the backline.

When arguing for mage melee you can count melee gear, buffs YOU recieve and /ja's that directly enhance YOUR DPS only. You can't rely on buffs you give to people, a pet that doesn't require you to frontline to use or anything else that has no bearing on your melee. A WAR can't count the extra damage done by his team mates when he uses War cry when calculating his own melee damage output, now can he?

[Dallas]

Not talking about party contribution. Avatar, buffs, heals etc. can be used backline, so they have no place in a discussion about melee.

So you are really going to pretend you have some sort of monopoly on avatar buffs because you are too lazy to level staff?

[Razushu]

So you are really going to pretend you have some sort of monopoly on avatar buffs because you are too lazy to level staff?

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee. It's a very simple concept, if it's not melee it doesn't count as melee contribution. Party buffs and Avatar damage will always be there front or backline. You can't use them to boost weak melee numbers, and hope nobody notices.

[Karbuncle]

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee. It's a very simple concept, if it's not melee it doesn't count as melee contribution. Party buffs and Avatar damage will always be there front or backline. You can't use them to boost weak melee numbers, and hope nobody notices.

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

[Leonlionheart]

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

BRD+COR+SMN+NIN+NIN+NIN

Marchx2(or with +4 March and Soulvoice March+Minuet)Blitzer's Roll+Crit Roll(or DA, or Attack)+Ramuh's Favor+That Ifrit's BP:W.

Lots o DPS

[Razushu]

Only to the bold. ONLY.

I found, With say, Capped haste values (Double March, Haste, etc etc, You know what i mean!) that Ifrit's new BP:Ward can be a amazing enhancement to damage. Imagine a THF with Soul-voiced March, amongst other buffs, landing an additional 35 damage a swing!

Its a pretty epic BP when utilized correctly.

Anyway, I know thats not exactly what you were talking about of course, I just thought I'd bring it up.

The boost to our wards lately have been amazing, I hope they keep up the good work.

[Dallas]

No I'm saying you can't count non-melee contribution when you're trying to push mage melee.

I sure can, and I do. My pet deals damage which supplements my melee damage. It's called addition, and it's a pretty easy concept. My buffs add damage to all melee. "Add" is the verb form of "addition."

If you start today, I bet you could master addition before FFXI dies. Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

[Razushu]

I sure can, and I do. My pet deals damage which supplements my melee damage. It's called addition, and it's a pretty easy concept. My buffs add damage to all melee. "Add" is the verb form of "addition."

If you start today, I bet you could master addition before FFXI dies. Get started, because I hate dumbing my posts down this much.

No they don't supplement your melee damage, they deal damage on their own. You also can't count buffs the other party members recieve into your melee damage. Avatars will deal the same damage if you aren't meleeing and you can still apply the buffs from there too. If you're ever going to justify SMN melee it needs to be from the melee alone. The only things that can count is your personal DPS, buffs you recieve from gear, spells and job abilities.

You can't use hastega on a party and then claim you're doing 15% of the damage. You're not they are you just gave them hastega. The BP hastega is not factored into your melee damage, the haste you recieve is though. Get it? It's a really simple concept.

Your posts are dumb already and not on purpose.

[Malamasala]

No they don't supplement your melee damage, they deal damage on their own. You also can't count buffs the other party members recieve into your melee damage. Avatars will deal the same damage if you aren't meleeing and you can still apply the buffs from there too. If you're ever going to justify SMN melee it needs to be from the melee alone. The only things that can count is your personal DPS, buffs you recieve from gear, spells and job abilities.

You can't use hastega on a party and then claim you're doing 15% of the damage. You're not they are you just gave them hastega. The BP hastega is not factored into your melee damage, the haste you recieve is though. Get it? It's a really simple concept.

Your posts are dumb already and not on purpose.

You keep making the same mistake yourself. If Dallas can't use his Summoner tools to advocate melee, then you can't use them to advocate backline play. That leaves the discussion at "Melee staff damage vs cures/-na spells".

And I'd say which of these are better, simply depends on party setup. You got a WHM? Go melee. You have no healing support? Please help cure.

I.e. Melee on Summoner when the situation allows it. Else it is like playing WAR and never tanking, because you think the job is only about doing damage. Most jobs can cover more than one role. (Don't try and tank on SMN though)