Dragoon Manifesto thoughts

[Yugl]

The biggest problems with DRG are...

1. Abilities tied to Wyvern
2. Abilities tied to other abilities

Issue (1) is that wyvern durability is almost nonexistent. SE can resolve this by making wyverns survivability greater or by reducing the recast of wyverns significantly (1-3min perhaps). If you're going to tie our melee capabilities to our wyvern, you need to make access to a wyvern as easy as it is for SMN and BST. Ignorant people will probably respond by demanding enhanced melee capability for SMN and BST, but they forget that the damage potential of our pets is leagues apart. The OP has made an effort to resolve this, but I don't think that his or her suggestions necessarily fix the problem. Instead, we should grant the wyvern near invulnerability while placing restrictions on wyvern tanking. For example, you can have wyvern's enmity rapidly reduce over time (Stopping at a certain VE/CE value if necessary).

Issue (2) is resolvable by significantly reducing the recast of tied abilities when opting for one jump over another. However, I think most players would prefer untied abilities.

Lets look at DRG's DD abilities by situation:

1. Dragon mob, wyvern up (best case scenario)
- Ancient Circle (3/20ths the fight with Brais)
- Dragon Breaker (3/10ths the fight)
- Spirit Jump
- Soul Jump
- Angon (1/2 the fight)
- Deep Breathing (Marginal at best)
- Spirit Link (Assuming Empathy even copies haste buffs)
- Smiting Breath

2. Wyvern up (Common for certain XP mobs)
- Spirit Jump
- Soul Jump
- Angon (1/2 the fight)
- Deep Breathing
- Spirit Link
- Smiting Breath

3. Dragon mob, no Wyvern
- Ancient Circle (3/20ths the fight)
- Dragon Breaker (3/10ths the fight)
- Jump
- High/Soul Jump (Decreased enhancement)
- Angon (1/2 the fight)

4. No Wyvern or Dragon mob (Common scenario against tougher NMs)
- Jump
- High/Soul Jump
- Angon (1/2 the fight)


That's an overly generous list. Realistically, Deep Breathing, Smiting Breath, and Spirit Link shouldn't make the list. Furthermore, the DD potential drops significantly once we resort back to Jump/High Jump. Notice that our best ability, persistently, is Angon. SE should make DRG a DD that enhances the PT's DD potential. AOE Buffs and debuffs is the best direction to take DRG. This need not conflict with mages as there are a variety of AoE buffs/debuffs you can offer us that will not allow us to replace mages. Buffs from mages tend to focus on haste/attack enhancements. Debuffs from mages, on the other hand, tend to cripple the mob's offensive. I think mages would like to branch out into crippling the mob's defensive stats more than they currently do, but that will be for the dev team to work out.

[OMEGA_HACK]

yeah they want to basically say those effects will be added to the person behind you and call it a DRG update...

Oh thanks SE, how kind of you; lol... /sarcasm

[Leonlionheart]

I wouldn't mind if it had nothing to do with placement. Or if it shared the same timer as Super Jump.

[noodles355]

nice to see threads about Drg, a job with comparitively few problems, in general forum stays here, but a topic about thief, which has much more issues, gets moderated and moved to the job specific forum where it is left to rot without any other cknowlegement from SE.

[Seha]

nice to see threads about Drg, a job with comparitively few problems, in general forum stays here, but a topic about thief, which has much more issues, gets moderated and moved to the job specific forum where it is never acknowleged at all.

Whining will help your cause for sure.

[Karbuncle]

Whining will help your cause for sure.

If history is any indication the sarcasm is meaningless as it actually will. >___>

[Leonlionheart]

THF has problems? I thought 8k Rudra's Storms were good, I guess I was wrong.

TH7 is something to complain about too

Not to mention it is by far the most wanted job for empyrean farming, along side WAR NIN and WHM.

I'll add it has the most evasion, and can actually pull off evasion tanking as /war in some cases.

[Karbuncle]

Spoilered for off-topic-THF related content in DRG thread.

THF has problems? I thought 8k Rudra's Storms were good, I guess I was wrong.

Only in Abyssea. Content that is going bye bye. Outside We're weak. Our DPS is shit next to any real DD, and even the best SA/TA WS will pale next to a good Ukko's Furry of Victory Smite.

Its sad but the damage doesn't compare well outside Abyssea :|

TH7 is something to complain about too

No, Its the one good thing about the job. However, I simply believe Treasure hunter is not a good enough reason to keep THF a mediocre job thats only reason for existing is TH.

THFs problem isn't its gimmick abilities, Its that its damage is so poor its not worth its place as a Melee, so it will inevitably become a "Hit mob > Go afk" job again.

TH6 is also the highest we go naturally without Atmas. If you're saying a THF should use the TH Atma, You kinda elegantly proved my point, Being we're so worthless in DD no one cares if we sacrifice a large chunk of our DD (RR, GH, or Apoc, whichever one you remove for Dread) by putting on a TH Atma instead.

THF doesn't want to just be a TH whore. We love TH, But we feel we can contribute more to the party, All we want is a small damage boost to where we're not so far behind other DD on real endgame content.

Not to mention it is by far the most wanted job for empyrean farming, along side WAR NIN and WHM.

True, but only for TH whoring :\, THF is only useful for Treasure Hunter. We have no other redeeming quality. We don't feel other jobs should go ignored, we just feel THF should also be addressed.

Remember at 75 when it was "Hit the mob and sit down"? Oh yah, Loads of fun on THF. I love showing up to an event just to hit the mob and go away so i can feel useful! Most LS just had a LS THF Mule, and no other THF was allowed. why? because the job is worthless outside of TH.

I'll add it has the most evasion, and can actually pull off evasion tanking as /war in some cases.

It seems like you have not done a lot of Non-Abyssea Endgame content with a THF. I assure you if you step a THF outside abyssea with a DD worth his own grain of salt (oh hey, You have an Ukonvasara you can test this yourself!) That the THF will perform so horribly that its not even funny anymore.

Go test your UkonWAR vs a Mandau or Thwast THF on equal grounds against REAL enemies (like the VT+Demons in Dynamis, Voidwatch Enemies, etc), You will probably do more than 75% of the damage.

In Abyssea i admit we're very good too, Abyssea made up for a lot of our weaknesses, But my complaints are with outside Abyssea content, Where the game is heading.

If we continue down our current path our jobs will once again be "Hit the mob and stop feeding it TP gimpo", which will even further inevitably lead to most LS's just having a TH mule they drag around.

[noodles355]

THF has problems? I thought 8k Rudra's Storms were good, I guess I was wrong.

TH7 is something to complain about too

Not to mention it is by far the most wanted job for empyrean farming, along side WAR NIN and WHM.

I'll add it has the most evasion, and can actually pull off evasion tanking as /war in some cases.

8k WS. That's great, except that that is linked to SA and TA, it's timers and it's positioning. One of those and you're pretty much hate capped. Making it even harder to pull it off again.

If Thief was Warrior, this is basically what the update would have given you:
We're going to focus on buffing Warrior's Defence Bonus and Resist Virus traits.
We're going to give Warrior's Charge to Samurai as well.
We're going to give Berserk and Aggressor to Dragoon and Dark Knight as well.

Thief is good in abyssea because it can tank and apply TH at the same time. It's damage is good and on par with any other crit WS job, however it's far from the strongest.

On remotely hard content we do shit. SE won't even give us Subtle Blow traits to offset our sub-200 delay daggers.
Thief was screaming for DW for years. they gave it to Dnc. They gave a force crit ability to Dnc. They want to give Triple Attack ability to Dnc.

The problem with Thief is that SE only wants to boost Steal and Enmity control. Steal is a steaming pile of shit, and all they want to do is up success rate so we can steal more Bone Chips and inflict random statuses on unimportant mobs with a 5 minute recast. Sounds awesome.

SE ignore the playerbase, and what they want from thief, they go back on their plans to enhance our DD capabilities and they give our signature abilities to other jobs.

[Coldbrand]

Guess which job this thread isn't for.