ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

[Shinron-PUP]

If your automaton is doing a significant chunk of your damage (and you aren't just nuking with him) then you are doing something horribly wrong. Pup has access to some DD gear, use it. Yes, if you make an effort to gimp your damage you can make yourself bad enough that your automaton will out damage you. That is not a good thing, and doesn't mean automatons are good. Compare a real DD vs a PUP focusing on doing damage vs a PUP focusing on their automaton. The real DD will destroy the smart PUP, and the smart PUP will destroy the PUP focusing on his automaton.

I guess it's worth consideration that I might be. After aquiring complete Usukane/Verethragna/Enkidu/Cirque +2 Set I still see a "Lack of damage from the masterr incomparison to the automaton, but I don't gimp myself when fighting with my automaton. Of course it's difficult to concentrate on both the automaton and fighting on the master but if you actually fight on both with equal attention the pet will out DD you but you'll dish out more damage in sum than you will focusing mainly on yourself. Don't get me wrong... I'm not a narcacist who believes that his method is absolute and I believe you might be correct and I'm wrong but give it a try. I think from what people are saying where they are like, "The master dishes out 90% of the damage," shows that there must be something completely wrong in their damage logic incomparison to mine even when checking damage preportions using a scanner the pet does about 60% of the damage when using Heat capacitor, Barrage Turbine, and the correct attachments to enhance ws damage and DPS. I actually prioritize coiler alot more than normal people though and keep up 3 thunder manuevers during TP... I notice, at least, that it's the optimal tping method for the pet rather than turbo charger.

[Shinron-PUP]

Actually now that I think about it... We should make sure we're actually on the same terms lol. If talking about out damaging the pet inside abyssea, I can see that, but I mean outside of abyssea and on a general basis.

[MarkovChain]

I guess it's worth consideration that I might be. After aquiring complete Usukane/Verethragna/Enkidu/Cirque +2 Set I still see a "Lack of damage from the masterr incomparison to the automaton, but I don't gimp myself when fighting with my automaton. Of course it's difficult to concentrate on both the automaton and fighting on the master but if you actually fight on both with equal attention the pet will out DD you but you'll dish out more damage in sum than you will focusing mainly on yourself. Don't get me wrong... I'm not a narcacist who believes that his method is absolute and I believe you might be correct and I'm wrong but give it a try. I think from what people are saying where they are like, "The master dishes out 90% of the damage," shows that there must be something completely wrong in their damage logic incomparison to mine even when checking damage preportions using a scanner the pet does about 60% of the damage when using Heat capacitor, Barrage Turbine, and the correct attachments to enhance ws damage and DPS. I actually prioritize coiler alot more than normal people though and keep up 3 thunder manuevers during TP... I notice, at least, that it's the optimal tping method for the pet rather than turbo charger.

No you are wrong. In order to max your automaton you have to use manoeuvers and each use is 2 seconds during which you cannot fight. There is no way you can recover this damage. The extreme comparison is when killing trash exp mobs in abyssea when after you engage yourself you first use deploy for -2 sec, then wind manoeuver for haste. That's 4 seconds wasted, when the mobs takes maybe 10 second to kill on a DD (like ... the master). The devs have released the manoeuvers stats and unless you use MAB attach on BLM head they are all not worth using. The most retarded are the attach for attack+ or the haste ones. I mean it is cool to have +25% haste on your pet but it requires 3x2 seconds of not DDing for +25% damage ONLY (and only after the 30 initial seconds + the time for not overloading so probably 1 minute) on the pet that starts with an incredibly severe GIMP damage compared to you.

[Mercilessturtle]

I think from what people are saying where they are like, "The master dishes out 90% of the damage," shows that there must be something completely wrong in their damage logic incomparison to mine

Yes, something is wrong alright. Why are you pretending you can keep up 3 thunder maneuvers? Why are you acting like barrage turbine is worth using? Losing 2 seconds to get your automaton to shoot one extra arrow is a loss in damage, not a gain. Gimping your own damage by more than the amount you are benefiting the automaton is exactly the problem I was mentioning.

Abyssea or not doesn't make that much of a difference, it is just cruor buffs. Gives the pup a bit of an advantage over the automaton, but nothing huge. Just compare attack speed, with just haste, a pup is attacking 50% faster than a sharpshot automaton with a wind maneuver up. Each of those attack rounds includes 2 fists, and the 2 chances to double attack that goes with it. Plus the automaton's single attack is pretty low damage. He only shoots every 20 seconds, and can't even be bothered to WS at 100TP, further lowering his WS output.

If you don't put up the wind maneuver you are attacking 80% faster. If you add marches or haste samba (or worst of all both) then things get much, much worse for the automaton. And this is ignoring things like AoEs killing your automaton all the time, him getting slept, bound, grav, etc and all the damage loss that goes along with that. It isn't worth losing 10% of your damage (or more if you use the horrible attachments that eat maneuvers) to give an automaton a 10% damage boost, because the automaton's damage is far too low to begin with.

[Kojo]

Hey, why not add a special Maneuver-like JA that makes the Automaton Cure or Raise and give Soulsoother Raise? Just thought of how handy that'd be.

[Karbuncle]

faster attacks, more dead autos, {You Can Have This}! I honestly think the speed of attacks is fine as is. Using ranged only attack my pup still generally pulls hate off any tank or anything else in 1-2 hits as it is, and that's WITH the stealth screen. And it can't take a hit

Unless you've hit Enmity cap that must be a very very bad tank... Even @ Enmity cap it must be a bad tank >_>;;

I agree with the rest of your points but I just, and really not trying to be mean, literally laughed out loud when i thought of how bad a tank must be to lose hate to an Automaton after 1-2 shots...

I know the RNG Frame is strong but lordy loo i don't think its so strong reducing Delay between ranged Attack will make it a constant thread to Enmity :P

[Glamdring]

Unless you've hit Enmity cap that must be a very very bad tank... Even @ Enmity cap it must be a bad tank >_>;;

I agree with the rest of your points but I just, and really not trying to be mean, literally laughed out loud when i thought of how bad a tank must be to lose hate to an Automaton after 1-2 shots...

I know the RNG Frame is strong but lordy loo i don't think its so strong reducing Delay between ranged Attack will make it a constant thread to Enmity :P

I don't have AF3 +1 yet of my pup gear, still using ACP/MKT/ASA gear, and it all boosts the pet (a legacy from my building the set for my bst). And I'm talking about good tanks, or well equipped/merited mages for that matter. Not being sarcastic in the least. I also use Empy weaps along the elemental path, a mage set that's +MAB, a physical set that's +ACC. My pup misses about as often as the planet has total solar eclypses. I don't even use + damage attachments unless we fighting MB in Aby or an HNM, I concentrate on EVA once I've maxxed out Auto-repair or refresh (or both) on my auto.

I never even double up on a single element, I always use 3 different manuvers, except when resting when I MIGHT double light or Dark for faster recovery. And I haven't run out of MP since I got the Mana converter, not once.

oh, and both my ranged and valoredge autos are 25-40 skill off cap in their respective offensive skill categories.

[Mercilessturtle]

And I'm talking about good tanks, or well equipped/merited mages for that matter. Not being sarcastic in the least.

Of course you are not being sarcastic, you are being delusional. Let's look at your claim, giving you every benefit, no matter how absurd. We'll even call the tank a pld since they suck so badly.

Let's pretend your automaton is pdif capped against whatever NM your pretending this happens on. So he does 630 damage per shot. He shoots every 20 seconds. So best case for you is 1260 damage in the span of 20 seconds. Lets pretend this imaginary NM is only level 75, since that gets you way more enmity than if it were a realistic level. Your automaton has 1938 CE and 4615 VE without using any of the -enmity attachments.

A pld who isn't engaged and is just relying on gaining enmity from JAs and spells (the worst possible way to gain enmity) generates 6240 VE and 543 CE in the first couple seconds just from popping sentinel + DE + flash. Toss in a cure4 and their other JAs and the pld has capped their VE at 10,000, even if they take enough damage to completely zero out their CE, they are still 3500 enmity ahead of your automaton.

Now imagine you aren't using a horrible tank, but a DD. Lets say monk, and let's make them /nin. Do you think a mnk/nin is going to do more or less than 1260 damage in 20 seconds? A Taurine Cesti mnk/nin with an amazingly low 1.0 average pdif (impossible considering we're pretending your automaton is pdif capped, but let's give you every magical fantasy land advantage possible) will deal 1140 damage if they have 0 (or negative) fstr, only have haste, don't WS, have a 0% crit rate (pretty cool trick especially with impetus) and aren't countering because of shadows.

Is that your definition of a good tank? Because that completely impossible scenario is the only way your automaton can be pulling hate, and that is with an automaton that has no -enmity attachments like you claim to use. With stealth screen on, and no water maneuvers to enhance it, you wouldn't be pulling hate even in that hilarious fantasy scenario. Please stop making up crazy nonsense because you want to imagine your automaton is some kind of godly killing machine. Your automaton is exactly the same as everyone else's, and they suck.

[Sparthos]

The tank must be dead if an automaton is pulling hate with the /ra.

As it stands, the pet just doesn't compete against human players when buffed. The more buffed your party is, the more the Puppetmaster takes over as primary DD and the less the automaton contributes.

[Kojo]

Another thing I'm not completely sure of, dunno if there's a way to do this already because I don't use Spiritreaver too much for fear of double procing, but why can't we control nukes with maneuvers? Like Ice = Blizzard spells, etc.