ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

[Malamasala]

Well I guess it is safe to say now that the developers and forum guys have ignored this thread and ignored this pup issue once again.

/clap

I'm still confused why they don't have rules like:

"Answer one topic per job a week"

Would make it feel like SE cared about all of us, and didn't just favor a handful of jobs and ignore the others.

[Malamasala]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

Doesn't work. The moderator only deletes your post, it doesn't mean the community representatives even touched the thread. Big difference between moderators and community representatives.

But it is quite fun that the following line exists in the forum rules:

Posting content that criticises either Square Enix staff or specific individuals.

Basically, you are not allowed to complain. Praising and general neutral questions only.

[brayen]

(didnt go through all the reponses)

i agree with the fixes for the mage frame AI, a simple fix like water maneuver triggering a na spell instead of cure first would be better(dark or w/e for drains and aspire). I mean i have NO control over my automation at all when it comes to these things lol. not to mention i cant say what to nuke for my blm frame, but thats not as important of an issue.

One addition i might of missed or was not mentioned is extended maneuvers. It is our biggest draw back when trying to contribute damage as it delays our own damage significantly AND really cramps up my hand if i play pup for a bit too long(inversely could add a hasso/seigan effect where one extends them and maintains normal effects and one shortens duration but improves effect....anyways, i dun wanna spitball ideas here!)

I would gladly lose half the upcoming attachments if these two minor fixes could be addressed, hell i can even overlook our paper armor for these fixes (provided i get the direct cure that they mentioned >.>)

[Darkwizardzin]

Basically, you are not allowed to complain. Praising and general neutral questions only.

.......being not allowed to be a jerk to the staff does not mean your not allowed to disagree with the content that square enix posts.

You know its posting crap like this and being rude in general to SE that more likly than not is going to insure that SE is not even gonna say anything to this thread.

[Seriha]

Maybe they're afraid to make the automatons ungimp because pups would be able to solo more efficiently or maybe the creator of the AI doesn't see anything wrong with it.

It's mainly a problem I hinted on earlier. How close to a second player should a pet get before it's too much? As is, there's very little penalty to the player for letting a pet die (Usually just waiting a short bit on a timer, BST having a small gil expense if using jugs). PUP, BST, and DRG can be a strong physical presence without their pet around, so it's not like they're completely useless without.

Things like the pet invulnerabilities were dumb even if they were useful or gave "a time to shine" as it were. Ultimately, it's a juggling act between what the player and pet can do, to which if people want the pet to do more, the player needs to do less. However, seeing how the early days of PUP reflected that and certainly hurt its popularity through poor gear and perhaps an incomplete implementation, perhaps too much focus has been given to both aspects that, while many might not realize the potential now, still doesn't mean it's not there. The moment a pet can completely replace a party member, however, is when things go too far. That's probably the biggest issue plaguing AI tweaks. At what point do things shift from partially inspired choices to outright delayed, conditional commands?

[Malamasala]

.......being not allowed to be a jerk to the staff does not mean your not allowed to disagree with the content that square enix posts.

You know its posting crap like this and being rude in general to SE that more likly than not is going to insure that SE is not even gonna say anything to this thread.

Being rude comes with being ignored a decade. The cure is to stop ignoring me. And it isn't even on a personal level, if they stop ignoring Summoner threads, I'd be happy.

Just imagine yourself trying to order a pizza 10 years and the pizza clerk refuses to reply to you. I'm sure you'd be at least a little ticked off.

I still don't understand how hard it can be to be a community representative? If I had the job, I'd be working my ass off to make people happier, instead of attempt to annoy as many people as possible by randomly replying to only a few threads.

[Mercilessturtle]

It's mainly a problem I hinted on earlier. How close to a second player should a pet get before it's too much?

And it is not a problem at all. Again, a pup + automaton is still nowhere even close to competitive with as single normal job in most situations. Making the automaton slightly better than "totally worthless" isn't going to make pup overpowered, it might drag us up out of the depths of "one of the worst jobs in the game" to being just "below average". Go level pup and use it before making absurd claims about how close to two players it is.

[Seha]

Again, a pup + automaton is still nowhere even close to competitive with as single normal job in most situations. Making the automaton slightly better than "totally worthless" isn't going to make pup overpowered, it might drag us up out of the depths of "one of the worst jobs in the game" to being just "below average".

Maybe you're bad at pup? Leaving proc usefulness aside pup is nowhere near being the worst dd.

[TimeMage]

I could say my PUP does nowhere the damage of my WAR... And I would be totally wrong. Hit for hit, WS for WS, the WAR wins, clearly. But damn it, we have our automatons! When Sancho is churning 2k+ Armor Piercers around, skillchaining with my 2k+ Stringing Pummels and weakening the mob defenses in the process (as well as adding its own constant damage during the TP phase), I know i'm a damn good DD as PUP.

Seriha is right. Increasing too much the pet's power would cause imbalances. However, I don't think we're near that point, at all. Our pets, right now, as DDs makes us competitive with the best, as soloers makes us survivors with fear of strong AoEs and status effects (the latter should not be an issue, but... You know, stupid AI), and as nukers, our pets can dish out great hateless nukes at the price of slow nukes.

We're fine, and not overpowered. But there's some VERY glaring issues, listed in Psion's first post, that should be addressed.

[Darkwizardzin]

Being rude comes with being ignored a decade. The cure is to stop ignoring me. And it isn't even on a personal level, if they stop ignoring Summoner threads, I'd be happy.

Just imagine yourself trying to order a pizza 10 years and the pizza clerk refuses to reply to you. I'm sure you'd be at least a little ticked off.

I still don't understand how hard it can be to be a community representative? If I had the job, I'd be working my ass off to make people happier, instead of attempt to annoy as many people as possible by randomly replying to only a few threads.

You make it sound like being a community rep is easy.... you have no idea what that job entails. I'm sure there are many... many things he can't just say to the community freely... and (based on what i've seen so far) getting the information to answer some of your questions is easyer said then done. Even if he gets said information it must be a nightmare getting appoval to release it...if he's given it. This person has to take that small amount of information that he is allowed to give and make the community happy with it... as you can clearly see by your (and many others) "demand" for more information that sure as hell isn't easy. Plus he has to pass along ideas from the community back to the devs... and seeing some of the "ideas" that the comminty has given it can't be easy to weed out the bad ideas and pass along the good ones... also im sure there are many other things that needs to be done with this kind of job that we know nothing about.

I know how annoying it must be to wait so long for this information... but making rude comments isn't helping your cause at all... it's hurting it.