ATTN: Community Reps/Dev Team: PUPs of Vanadiel DEMAND a response on Automaton A.I.!

[Cream_Soda]

Nobody cares about your opinion of me either, but you still post about it.

That's 100% false. I certainly care.

[Alhanelem]

I'm just amused he thought I superficially claimed I was speaking for everyone. I have been a poster on alla, bluegartr, KI, ffxiclopedia, and now here for years, and played the job and lurked on pup forums ever since pup got its first pupdate after it came out. One of the biggest demands I have seen, in threads popping up everywhere, is the same complaint about the A.I., with not a single person disagreeing, with pups repeatedly demanding for years in dev Q and As for them to fix it, first starting with asking if they planned to adjust it, then mentioning the problem, then mentioning the problem more. When I say pups of vanadiel DEMAND a response, I mean it. Note that I didn't even say ALL pups of vanadiel, just pups. I even asked other pups to give their input on this thread.

I remember reading something in a story once, about how when people give an accusing opinion of other people, it's actually a trait that they themselves have. If they claim others are lazy, then they often are lazy themselves. If they claim others are attention whoring... well...

All I'm saying is I did not make this post flippantly, but instead am trying to continue the majority of pups continued pleas for the A.I. to be fixed.

I appriciate the candid response. However, I still disagree with treating it as a demand, as it sort of implies a threat. Are you going to quit if they don't change the AI (and specifically quit for that reason)?

A polite request is generally much more effective, that's all. I would very much like for changes to be made. However, because I'm able to get by without changes, I don't consider it to be so immediately essential that I feel it's necessary to make it a demand and not a request.

I also agree with the point of your little story.

[Mercilessturtle]

Your *tenth* post in this thread was the first one that was a "a constructive, sensical post". The first nine were not about the topic of the thread, but rather about you. You aren't being accused of anything, you keep spamming the entire forum with "stop posting in ways that I do not approve of" as though your approval is something that matters. That is purely to get attention.

Ten shots from each distance is all it takes to see the obvious drop in damage. I'll leave it up to you to figure out why you can't see it. Yes, this is all the more reason to keep sharpshot in melee range. You seem to have forgotten already that the very problem being discussed is that you have to keep sharpshot in melee range. "Keep him in melee range" is not a solution to "we have to keep him in melee range". We need a way to keep him *out* of melee range, because he dies very easily to aoes in melee range. There is no reason to have a ranged frame if it can not attack effectively at range.

[Glamdring]

OP, I'm with you on the soulsoother on every point. Face it, if you were in a pt with a whm THAT stupid you'd be in a party looking for a replacement to your main healer, why should your pup get treated better for its stupidity?

Spiritreaver, sorry, but not on board with you there, except on 3. I don't mind blm pup draining and aspiring when it feels the need. I can't comment on the need for a dark manuver because I always have 1 up for the refresh. They do however need to drain commensurate with your pup's magic skill and as near as I can tell they don't. Now the stupidcasting, this I agree with wholeheartedly. What the hell is the built-in scanner (or the attachment) FOR if not to detect and respond to the prey's weaknesses? as I recall that's even in the descriptive text.

You left out Stormwalker, my favorite frame/head. It's a rdm, let it cast rdm spells! Seriously, we and it are level 90, but it stopped learning spells at 72. If rdm had stopped learning spells at 72 they really WOULD have a bitch with SE. This is why I have issues with the Disruptor; Dispel is a rdm spell, Stormwalker is a rdm, it should simply have the spell without costing us a valuable attachment slot.

You also left out Harley, but since SE did too I'll just let that one go. I'm not even sure what job it's supposed to be!

Valoredge-ok, this thing is advertised as a pseudotank, and although they advertise it as a sorta-pld I have yet to see it cure itself, buff itself or use a white magic nuke so I'm going to call it a warrior tank. Too bad it can't hold hate, eh? So, as you can guess I have issues with the barrier module. The thing's had a shield built into it from day one; finally after about 5 years it gets to use it? What the hell.

Sharpshot, sorry not really on board with much here. Your "elite" players scream if you deploy it at a distance because you're not satisfying the almighty DPS that they worship like some mindless thuggee in a cult, but it's a ranger and I use it as such. I like the firing speed, too. Unlike those who worship DPS, I worship Hate control, Survival and Success of the fight. Speaking as a level 90 thief who SATA-DE onto nukers and mages that consistently pull hate (you want mob hate so much, here you go...), it's nice to see a substitute for 1 of those jobs that puts up decent #s without taking hate from the tank, and even then I still need the stealth screen. Considering the little bastard's non-existant durability (seems even squishier than the job it emulates) I like to keep hate off it.

I also don't like the idea of being forced to use attachments to modify the AI to what it should have been in the 1st place. Just fix the AI. I understand that they've added Disruptor and barrier module, so getting those put in native is obviously not going to happen now, fine. Seriously though, the reason it was "lolpup" for all these years IS the stupidity of the native AI. Although abyssea has allowed the few dedicated pups out there to demonstrate that pup IS a legitimate pet job with some powerful weapons to bring to the table, I'm still generally asked "what else have you got?" when I seek a party, and more often than not asked to come on the bst (despite not having the -pdt set), brd, thf or dnc.

Just fix the damn AI, it's not that hard...

[Psion]

I appriciate the candid response. However, I still disagree with treating it as a demand, as it sort of implies a threat. Are you going to quit if they don't change the AI (and specifically quit for that reason)?

A polite request is generally much more effective, that's all. I would very much like for changes to be made. However, because I'm able to get by without changes, I don't consider it to be so immediately essential that I feel it's necessary to make it a demand and not a request.

I also agree with the point of your little story.

I realize a polite request is more effective... generally. I think after what? 3, 4 years now? of polite requests, it's time to realize politeness is getting us nowhere. We need to start demanding change. (politely.) And yes, it is a threat. We might not have much power, since it is their game and their company... But we can at least do what we can, clamor louder and louder till they listen or blacklist us off the forums. I seriously doubt they would do that to everyone demanding changes, however, as we our their customers and we aren't exactly making an unreasonable demand.

And you might not feel it immediately essential... well, guess what, with how long the bug has been here, it's long past time you can claim that it can be put off because it isn't needed. It was needed YEARS ago. YEARS. We've waited far too long as it is.

And glamdring, i respectfully disagree with your disagreement on sharpshot. A ranged shot every 15-20 seconds or so is pretty terrible, even more so when your way outside the sweet spot for damage. It's not so bad on too weaks, because your so high above them you do like 600 damage to level 10 mobs anyways, but against an IT the damage drops severely. If I saw a ranger doing shots for 100 damage 3-4 times a minute, with the occasional slugshot for 1.5k or so every... 2 minutes? I'd kick him and get one that wasn't so stingy with his arrows. That only averages out to several hundred damage a minute, and I think everyone can agree even a dragoons wyvern beats that out easily from melee hits alone. Now, of course, our sharpshot can also melee fairly well and in doing so builds tp quite nicely that way, and barrage turban helps a little these days, but it's still nowhere near worthwhile to fire from range like a ranger. That's why I'm suggesting a stance or stay command that makes it so he stops meleeing, changes his sweetspot to around 17 yalms, and starts firing at a speed that is approximate to a rangers. I'm not sure if it should be 3-4 seconds, but 5 or so sounds about right for the damage he does in the sweet spot.

But what then of drum magazine? Perhaps under this new stance it might lower the delay less than if he was meleeing, perhaps a second per maneuver. That might sound overpowered, but have you seen the ranged accuracy penalty on that thing? It's like 15%. It's so ridiculous it causes me to whiff an armor piercer on tiny mandragora every several weaponskills or so. I still don't consider that attachment worth it unless i'm one shot farming things.

[Alhanelem]

I love how (the same few) people are "like"ing the posts bashing me and not themselves saying anything constructive or useful.

I'm not the one guilty of all the negative things going on in here, but I take all the crap for it anyway.

And you might not feel it immediately essential... well, guess what, with how long the bug has been here, it's long past time you can claim that it can be put off because it isn't needed. It was needed YEARS ago. YEARS. We've waited far too long as it is.

I don't disagree, but we've made do without it for all those years and done just fine for ourselves, climbing out of the LOL hole and doing well for ourselves. To me, it's "I would really like this", but not "I absolutely have to have this or I'm quitting the game."

Believe me, other than what was done with the topic title, I'm on board with the suggestion. My entry into the thread was not intended to minimize your suggestion in any way. It was only meant in an informative mannner. I apologize for the rude manner in saying so, I've just gotten really frustrated at seeing things like [To the Devs] and such so much lately.

[Cream_Soda]

So why are you so interested in someone else's opinion of me?

Entertainment value

[Mercilessturtle]

Just fix the damn AI, it's not that hard...

I'll ignore all the "I want my automaton to be terrible" stuff for obvious reasons, but this part isn't actually as simple as you make it sound. "Fixing" the AI would be nice, but not everyone has the same definition of "fixed". In theory changing heads is supposed to alter the AI, but the changes it makes aren't terribly helpful.

Making the AI adjustable to the situation would be ideal, and using attachments is one way to do that. The problem is just that we end up running out of room for attachments. Maybe adding a 3rd slot to go with head/body would be best, have head/body/AI. And then you can put stuff like "lower (or raise) the priority of enfeebling spells" or "lower (or raise) the priority of status removal spells" in the AI slot without using up attachment space on it. You could do psion's "make it stay at a distance and shoot faster" mode using an AI slot that way too instead of a JA.

[Alhanelem]

Psion: The delay on sharpshot's ranged attacks is clearly for balance reasons. reworking it to have a higher attack rate would likely mean a nerf to the damage of the hits themselves and the weaponskills too.

Basically, Sharpshots metagame clashes with the norm. But I'm not sure how to solve that without it seeming like an across the board nerf.

I'll ignore all the "I want my automaton to be terrible" stuff for obvious reasons

Nobody wants their automaton to be terrible- I don't see any statements like that to ignore. If you're suggesting I said or implied that, I didn't.

[Psion]

I love how (the same few) people are "like"ing the posts bashing me and not themselves saying anything constructive or useful.

I'm not the one guilty of all the negative things going on in here, but I take all the crap for it anyway.

I don't disagree, but we've made do without it for all those years and done just fine for ourselves, climbing out of the LOL hole and doing well for ourselves. To me, it's "I would really like this", but not "I absolutely have to have this or I'm quitting the game."

Believe me, other than what was done with the topic title, I'm on board with the suggestion. My entry into the thread was not intended to minimize your suggestion in any way. It was only meant in an informative mannner. I apologize for the rude manner in saying so, I've just gotten really frustrated at seeing things like [To the Devs] and such so much lately.

Quitting? who said we would quit the game? We're not quitting, we're rioting. (politely.) And out of the LOL hole? Hardly. I shouted for advice on a ws choice for stringing pummel just yesterday, and got several lolpups, a pups are ho....bos (ill let you guess the actual word), and a couple telling me to change to another job. I only got one tell from someone who didn't know themselves but suggested one of the choices. I still get told regularly by people to change to a useful job. Have we gained some measure of respect? yes, but the fact remains we are nowhere near out of the hole yet.

And you might have gotten just fine without the A.I. fix all these years, but many of us sure haven't. I know I gave up soloing on pup entirely after skeleton number 230 got a killshot by spamming enfeebles on me, easy prey cockatrice got the killshot on me by spamming silence, petrify, and poison, goobues get the best of me with paralyze > paralyze > beatdown.. the list goes on and on. When you're forced to use role reversal > repair, deactivate activate for an emergency magic spell reset, ventriloquy sacrifice your auto and you STILL die... to something that's easy prey and you could've won easily had your white mage not been retarded... you kind of get tired of soloing.

And you can't tell me to fight other mobs either, because at the times I fought these I had no other option, whether it was magian trials, a quest item, or something else.

And you seem to not be getting the point. There's no reason to nerf the damage of the shots. NO reason. A several second delay and no ability to use melee hits is balanced for its high ranged damage and accuracy. I've seen dark knights hit for harder and at half that speed.