Thoughts on the FFXI Job Adjustment Manifesto

[Eric]

I'm just disappointed because Scholar is seriously the only mage job that I genuinely enjoy playing full time. I don't want to sound ungrateful, because SE just gave us the 2hr spells, but I'm really disappointed in the direction they've taken scholar.

It's become an even more situational job than it was before, and you can tell that the devs totally do not know what direction to take scholar in, because all of the updates since the level cap increases have just been random (and lackluster) abilities and spells that really don't even fit into the role that scholar originally had in parties. I don't think it's fair that they tried (and failed) at making Scholar an enmity control job. That was never what it was intended to do. Sure it fits in with the "Strategic Mage" idea, but not only was the idea half-baked, but I don't see any indication that they even continue to head in that direction.

The only thing that I can say that I'm grateful for is the new strategems. I've been considering changing my main job to something other than scholar, but I don't even know what I would play. It's been my main job for a year now. Even when I quit, deleted my character, and came back I still didn't want to play another job. I hate feeling like SE's neglected child. Especially because everyone accuses you of whining when you try to speak up.

[Parrow89]

Reposting from another thread to increase visibility to what I think is a valid point.

As having both SCH and WHM at 90 there are a couple of things I'd like to point out that I'm sad to see that SE didn't continue as the progression of spells continues.

I was looking over the spell lists again between WHM and SCH and one question comes to mind. "Why hasn't Scholar's regen progression continued?"

Looking at the spell lists Scholar gets spells well after both WHM and BLM except for one, and that's regen. Scholar is the only job that gets it early. Regen at 18. Regen II at 37. Regen III at 83? Wait! Stop right there!

For comparison WHM gets Regen at 21, Regen II at 44, and Regen III at 66.

For all the complaints that SCH doesn't have Cure V which I'm not a fan of. I would present the suggestion that we restore SCH to being the Regen kings/queens. Keep the merits for Regen on whm and get rid of the regen + on sch gear.

My proposal is that Regen III goes to sch at 60, Regen IV at 80, and create a Regen V (or equal healing helix) and give scholar that spell at 95.

Regen IV currently at base restores 600 hp total and costs 82 mp to cast.
Regen V (or healing helix) I would propose at base restores 800 hp total and cost 100 mp to cast. Make it unable to be used with Accession.

With this I could see healing again even in aby made better cause I dare not take my SCH into it anymore.

Thoughts?

[Horadrim]

Reposting from another thread to increase visibility to what I think is a valid point.

As having both SCH and WHM at 90 there are a couple of things I'd like to point out that I'm sad to see that SE didn't continue as the progression of spells continues.

I was looking over the spell lists again between WHM and SCH and one question comes to mind. "Why hasn't Scholar's regen progression continued?"

Looking at the spell lists Scholar gets spells well after both WHM and BLM except for one, and that's regen. Scholar is the only job that gets it early. Regen at 18. Regen II at 37. Regen III at 83? Wait! Stop right there!

For comparison WHM gets Regen at 21, Regen II at 44, and Regen III at 66.

For all the complaints that SCH doesn't have Cure V which I'm not a fan of. I would present the suggestion that we restore SCH to being the Regen kings/queens. Keep the merits for Regen on whm and get rid of the regen + on sch gear.

My proposal is that Regen III goes to sch at 60, Regen IV at 80, and create a Regen V (or equal healing helix) and give scholar that spell at 95.

Regen IV currently at base restores 600 hp total and costs 82 mp to cast.
Regen V (or healing helix) I would propose at base restores 800 hp total and cost 100 mp to cast. Make it unable to be used with Accession.

With this I could see healing again even in aby made better cause I dare not take my SCH into it anymore.

Thoughts?

I like the idea, but I've said before that before about similar ones that make perfect sense.

The problem isn't that there are no good ways to fix SCH without infringing on other jobs, the problem is that SE isn't using any of them...

We'll just have to wait and see what Brave has to offer.

[Eric]

Going into the JP forums equipped with google translate has led me to realize that a lot of JP players are also asking for major improvements to scholars. It's not only us complaining. There is a large majority of people who primarily play SCH that are asking for improvements.

Why are our voices being left unheard? One urgent thing that needs to be fixed is Modus Veritas. The dark times of exploiting its use for AV are behind us. If we want to avoid a similar situation, all one would have to do is prevent more than one SCH from successfully using Modus Veritas on a mob. Another option would be to let it be a status that makes your next helix do double damage in half the time.

That is one small thing that we have been shouting about for a LONG time. Recently, voidwatch has once again highlighted the severe shortcomings of the job ability.

That being said, I'll ask this again: Why are our cries for change falling on deaf ears?

[Economizer]

Why are our voices being left unheard?

Scholars got four update notes (five if you count the additional notes on the fourth update) before some jobs even got one. SE is most certainly listening to you. Not doing exactly what you want does not mean they aren't listening.

[Eric]

Scholars got four update notes (five if you count the additional notes on the fourth update) before some jobs even got one. SE is most certainly listening to you. Not doing exactly what you want does not mean they aren't listening.

Yes, because fixing/enhancing an ability that we can use every 2 hours will obviously fix SCH.

What's the worst part of it all, is that by giving us 2 powerful, but EXTREMELY SITUATIONAL spells, everyone feels like we're being ungrateful and whiny.

SCH is still an incredibly unpopular job. You know why? Because it's broken and unwanted. An improved 2hr won't fix that.

If they're listening, they're doing a terrible job of it.

[Ank]

Oh god, mister butthurt whm, you're right. Why with so many update posts for sch, and before any one else! sch is so broken! Crawl back into your holes everyone, we got a two hour update, what more could anyone ask for?


Even if the spells are mind blowingly amazing, a two hour update isn't a job fix. The reason we feel unheard is because there are tons and tons of ideas on this forum alone about doing something with sch, most even inline with the theme of the job, and yet only the first of the so called sch update posts even addressed anything useful, the rest was fluf. But apparently fluf is enough to get everyone else jealous.

[georgcantor316]

Honestly I think we need to fight the power Ghandi style. We need everybody in both the RDM and SCH camps to come together and petition SE. There are legitimate concerns comming from both the RDM and SCH camps in regards to the healing capacity not being addressed and there is simply no reason that it couldn't have been fixed this update. There were many unique and viable solutions to the 'Cure V' problem that could have been further tweaked by SE but they did nothing. This is simply unacceptable. Let's just look at this from a monetary point of view. We pay SE for the game, we give them our money. If we fall in love with a job and want to be able to play that job within the context of the other jobs in a meaningful and relevant way it's their duty to provide us that as we pay them for that. I would go so far as to suggest a RDM and SCH strike until this gets resolved. /end extremist rant... but it did feel good getting that out there

[Economizer]

Oh god, mister butthurt whm

Ad hominem, straw man. But hey, if people blindly like what you say because you can dish out the insults on the hallucinated arguments you say I'm making, that's fine. Putting words in the mouth of someone whose words you shouldn't be listening to because you consider them butthurt is a pretty good way to win an argument.

I didn't say that Scholars should be happy or unhappy with the generous amount of information the have been given. I merely said that Scholars should know that SE is listening to them. The notes SE has given have been reiterated over and over again as not completely being for the next update, but also for the future. The shear amount of things they have talked about will take time, especially on a busy development scheduled. But apparently not giving you everything you want right away doesn't count as listening?

Even if the spells are mind blowingly amazing, a two hour update isn't a job fix. The reason we feel unheard is because there are tons and tons of ideas on this forum alone about doing something with sch, most even inline with the theme of the job, and yet only the first of the so called sch update posts even addressed anything useful, the rest was fluf. But apparently fluf is enough to get everyone else jealous.

But the updates were not fluff. Aside from the massive two hour update going out with the next patch that will make Scholars incredibly useful inside Abyssea (2 new spells, 90 second duration), there are tons of things that aren't two hour related.

For the next update, Scholar is getting Raise III (SCH Lv. 92), Reraise III (SCH +v. 92), Fire V (SCH Lv. 91), Blizzard V (SCH Lv. 95). While Raise might not seem amazing on its face, being able to raise a whole party, even when weakened is now something Scholars will be able to do, and do better then even a White Mage. Additionally, there are adjustments planned for Raise that might include reducing weakened timers for higher tiers of Raise.

For future updates, Light Arts/Dark Arts are getting an unspecified buff depending on level. Scholars will be able to scan mobs. Debuffs will be easier to land on NMs, although duration will be affected more by resist rates. Stormsurge is getting changes, possibly the increased magical crit rate while under storms buff mentioned. Increased Stratagem charges are being considered, as is allowing Rapture to be used with Adloquium. Modus Veritas is likely to get a shortened recast to combat misses. Elemental magic may be able to get Manifested in the distant future.

SE also reassured Scholars that they are considering every suggestion for Scholar, particularly unique spells.

While some of those updates was SE flat out saying "no" to very unreasonable demands, the truth of the matter is that SE is listening to Scholar. The changes that you want may be delayed for future updates, or even denied, but to say SE isn't listening is pretty rude.

[Raksha]

Ad hominem, straw man. But hey, if people blindly like what you say because you can dish out the insults on the hallucinated arguments you say I'm making, that's fine. Putting words in the mouth of someone whose words you shouldn't be listening to because you consider them butthurt is a pretty good way to win an argument.

I didn't say that Scholars should be happy or unhappy with the generous amount of information the have been given. I merely said that Scholars should know that SE is listening to them. The notes SE has given have been reiterated over and over again as not completely being for the next update, but also for the future. The shear amount of things they have talked about will take time, especially on a busy development scheduled. But apparently not giving you everything you want right away doesn't count as listening?




But the updates were not fluff. Aside from the massive two hour update going out with the next patch that will make Scholars incredibly useful inside Abyssea (2 new spells, 90 second duration), there are tons of things that aren't two hour related.

For the next update, Scholar is getting Raise III (SCH Lv. 92), Reraise III (SCH +v. 92), Fire V (SCH Lv. 91), Blizzard V (SCH Lv. 95). While Raise might not seem amazing on its face, being able to raise a whole party, even when weakened is now something Scholars will be able to do, and do better then even a White Mage. Additionally, there are adjustments planned for Raise that might include reducing weakened timers for higher tiers of Raise.

For future updates, Light Arts/Dark Arts are getting an unspecified buff depending on level. Scholars will be able to scan mobs. Debuffs will be easier to land on NMs, although duration will be affected more by resist rates. Stormsurge is getting changes, possibly the increased magical crit rate while under storms buff mentioned. Increased Stratagem charges are being considered, as is allowing Rapture to be used with Adloquium. Modus Veritas is likely to get a shortened recast to combat misses. Elemental magic may be able to get Manifested in the distant future.

SE also reassured Scholars that they are considering every suggestion for Scholar, particularly unique spells.

While some of those updates was SE flat out saying "no" to very unreasonable demands, the truth of the matter is that SE is listening to Scholar. The changes that you want may be delayed for future updates, or even denied, but to say SE isn't listening is pretty rude.

a few thoughts:

1) An Ad Hominem is only a fallacy if it is being used INSTEAD OF an argument. (e.g. You're not wrong BECAUSE you're a troll, you just happen to both be wrong and a troll.)

2) So far I haven't seen SE give us ANYTHING we've wanted. It's not just that we haven't gotten everything we wanted.

3) Blizz5 etc aren't new, and aren't even the problem anyway.

4) 2HR spells will not make SCH useful in abyssea. Abyssea is a solved equation, and short of giving SCH procs or the ability go afk and still keep a tank alive, nothing will.

5) I can already raise an entire party of people while weakened. Raise 3 is a nice addition though, and it's welcomed. Also isn't really surprising.

6) Light/dark arts buff is something i'm actually excited about. Manifestion nukes are out of left field, and if allowed will be quite a bonus, but like we've been saying forever dark arts doesnt need much, if any, adjustments.

I understand you're upset that SCH has gotten so many responses. I partly agree. I would've preferred one decent post rather than four WTF?!? posts.