Thoughts on the FFXI Job Adjustment Manifesto

[Ank]

I wish they would change it for SCH, making so a SCH main can accession Haste, whereas /SCH still cannot.

Why?

/smn should give hastega by 99, we should all be able to accession haste.

[Sasaraixx]

Also, they didn't say the dark/light arts changes were main only, so what exactly is a subbed helix going to be like?

Yes, they did in a previous post.

[Ank]

It's already been confirmed on test anyways.

[Sasaraixx]

It's already been confirmed on test anyways.

That doesn't change anything about the validity of your previous statement.

[Siiri]

Why?

/smn should give hastega by 99, we should all be able to accession haste.

Seriously haste cycles are just needless busy work, why limit it to anyone? That is really stupid. White mage main would already be limited if haste was accessionable because we only have 2 charges. One less for penury Curagas/Cure V, etc or accession stoneskin. Scholar gets almost unlimited charges comparatively speaking.

As for scholar, I hope they are done buffing it. It was obnoxious before, now even random people who don't browse forums are going wth is up with SE and sch???? Other jobs need attention too.

[Sasaraixx]

Seriously haste cycles are just needless busy work, why limit it to anyone? That is really stupid. White mage main would already be limited if haste was accessionable because we only have 2 charges. One less for penury Curagas/Cure V, etc or accession stoneskin. Scholar gets almost unlimited charges comparatively speaking.

As for scholar, I hope they are done buffing it. It was obnoxious before, now even random people who don't browse forums are going wth is up with SE and sch???? Other jobs need attention too.

They are not done buffing the job. If you ever played it or had any idea concept of how badly it needs work you would understand that. And the notes mention more adjustments are coming.

That is not to say that other jobs don't need work (SMN, DRK, RDM BST, PUP, etc - note WHM is not one of them), but you can rest assured that SCH and THF are going to continue to be jobs that receive attention for the near future. Why? Because while other jobs need work, you'll be hard pressed to find jobs that need *more* attention. The dev team will eventually make it to everyone. Have some patience.

And SCH does not get unlimited charges, regardless of which job you are comparing it to. I am not saying that I think Haste(ga) should be SCH main only, but asking why only one job should be able to to make certain spells AOE and not others is a bit ironic coming from a WHM (see WHM vs RDM pre-Accession). Given that these stratagems are part of what makes SCH unique, I AM for SCH main being able to accession spells not available to other jobs.

I do not, however, think that Haste should be one of them. I don't think it should be possible for any job. Hastega is one of the few pacts SMN has that is unique. The other mage jobs are already able to cover Haste cycles just fine. Also, given the nature of the spell, you would be able to AOE it on alliance and outside parties as well. That is a lot better than what SMN can do.

[brayen]

Regen while seems nice, it seems to lack the potency it would require in any half serious situation where you are healing. the duration is nice and all but just that potency seems to fall short when most mobs will hit for at least 300 usually on a single swing, with the exception of maybe pld but if you are using a pld the mob is probably already doing a lot more then 300.

The helix changes seem meh as well, while the mp reduction and duration seem like a nice plus again the potency remains lackluster at current level cap. mixed in with the fact that helix spells are now open to all jobs you are left with a job that has only 1 proc for the current endgame of Void watch, that being Modus Veritas... which brings me to the next change.

Yet again the reduction in recast to this job ability is nice, the fact remains it does not land on ANYTHING worth mentioning which renders it unusable in the most literal of senses. If that issue could be addressed at the very least i could see helix spells being useful as stacking it with said job ability is frankly the only saving grace that has yet to arrive.

The changes to sch 2hr is a nice addition to the already strong additions recently made to sch 2hr.

Lastly the change to klimaform. Now this is the most positive and the single area where i say thank you. While i understand it will be available to all jobs as it is available as a sub job, the duration finally justifies casting it midbattle now.

So to sum it up, while it is a positive update overall, we have to keep in mind it is an overall positive for other jobs as well, as half od this stuff will be avaiable to other jobs (helix and klimaform)

Personally i would like to see some of the following tweaks:
- Either slight potency increase on the regen effects under light art and/or allow for rapture to affect regen so we are able to capitalize on this healing over time effect
- base dmg on helix OR shorten the "tics" on the damage over time
- Fix Modus Veritas so that it becomes usable instead of always missing
- add regain potency to the light arts and tabula rasa changes so as to add to the "over time" theme we are seeing here.

(note: all of this is without any insight as to weather or not we will see helix tier 2 or anything about future updates so can not take any of that into account)

please let me know what you think about any of this and/or if you support any of this!
in either case regardless of weather by the end sch becomes desirable or not i am thankful for at least getting an opportunity (and people need to stop complaining about which job needs an update especially when it is about a job that is bottom tier of desire.)

[Zhronne]

Given that these stratagems are part of what makes SCH unique, I AM for SCH main being able to accession spells not available to other jobs.

Yes, in the end this was the real point of what I was trying to say.
Stratagems are kinda a SCH trademark, so it sounds only right for them to be more "efficient" when on SCH main.
Being able to accession haste as SCH main would be a small example of what I'm saying.

[Sasaraixx]

Having finally read some of the information coming out from the test server, I have to say that I'm left very torn. I popped over the JP forum and the feeling is similar there as well. As Brayen said, we do not know what is in the works as far as new spells, so some of this worrying may not be justified in the end. It would be great if Camate could get some feedback from the development team on some of these to put our fears to rest. We don't need specifics as I am sure they are still being worked out, but it would be nice to know if they are aware of a few things.

1. Helix Changes
I was concerned that BLM or RDM would be able to make better use of these spells from /SCH, so the proposed future nerfs to them when accessed from /SCH is encouraging. The large problem I think is that this change basically makes SCH unnecessary for VW. You are already going to have a BLM for elemental magic procs and either it or the WHM can now cast the Helix spells as well. Modus Veritas misses so much that it is not even worth bringing a SCH for.

Also, the change in the levels in which the spells are learned was drastic. If tier II helices are going to be implemented, there is absolutely no reason to make a spell that was learned at 75 now available at lv32. Given how low these spells were made, I have to think that we should be getting Tier III Helix spells. I don't know how powerful they would be because I don't really have a sense of how strong the Helix spells are now after this adjustment. But purely from a level progression standpoint, you could easily fit in 2 more tiers: 18-32, 50-64 and 82-96. I am not saying SCH needs Tier III Helices. I've always said that our Dark Arts is pretty solid. I just cannot understand the reasoning behind making dropping these spells 40+ levels. If you were only going to add Tier II, then you didn't need to change the Tier I spells at all. The only reasons I can come up with are to make them available from /SCH for VW or to squeeze in multiple new tiers of the spell.

Also, if more tiers of Helix spells are added, they should become VW procs.

2. Regen Spells
These are great buffs. I still think the casting times are too long. I realize that the increased duration of the spells helps with that some, but you really should save off a second or two from the casting time for SCH.

I also think it would be nice for Regen spells to receive some kind of additional bonus similar to cureskin for WHM. As others have said, it is difficult to rely on these spells when mobs hit so hard these days. Of course we also have Cure IV, but some kind of additional bonus would really help in making SCH a viable healer. I have no idea what that could be of course. lol The other option is to lower the wait in between tics.

3. Modus Veritas/Klimaform
Both are nice changes. The accuracy of MV is still crazy but it doesn't look like SE is moving on this.

4. Further Light Arts/Dark Arts Bonuses
I really like the idea Brayen had of including Aldoquium to the list of spells effected by Light Arts. It should go up to 2tp/tic while under LA and maybe up to 2.5/3 at lv99. I'm not sure how much is too much to be honest. I do know that 1tp/tic is not worth casting.

The idea would also translate well if we receive the TP down spell that was mentioned in the Manifesto. It should be DOT type spell and its potency can be affected when cast under Dark Arts.

5. Animus Spells
Please do something with them! I'm really like the dot/hot/eot approach and these spells should be no different.

[brayen]

Animus spells could increase/decrease enmity over time sort of like a gradual enmity douse/ provoke maxing at around a 25~50%(total gain/loss) effect at the end of duration, personally these spells to me are worthless at current, (they are at the level of uselessness as Modus Veritas currently)