Thoughts on the FFXI Job Adjustment Manifesto

[Ahrana]

And I have another request, even though it's minor at best. I think scholars (and black mages) should be given access to the weaponskills that have been set aside for whm, pld, smn and mnk. It's annoying to have to sub white mage to have access to cataclysm, and not being able to hit staff red triggers as scholar is somewhat insulting.

[Raksha]

And BTW, for epeen screenshots... Magic bursting Qutrubs is the way to go! :P

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Arcalimo]

I'll just leave this here.

Instead of Merton, that seems just like another helix spell, you could add a spell more unique for the 2h.
Scholar's are good at controling the weather and could exploit this knowledge to cause a "Disaster"

Target: Single (stackable with stratagems)
Effect: Deals earth/water/wind/fire/ice/thunder/light/dark damage (based on Sch's level)
Aditional effect: Klimasphere (Party members around the SCH temporally get all weathers effects, including stormsurge bonuses)
Usage Level: X (Under the effects of Tabula Rasa, can be used only once)
Skill Type: Elemental Magic
Damage of each element calculated alone.

Example:
At max level could be something like this:

Scholar cast Disaster.
Enemy takes 1000 points of earth damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of water damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of wind damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of fire damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of ice damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of thunder damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of light damage.
Enemy takes 1000 points of dark damage.

It wouldn't be too overpowered considering that some jobs already can do 8k, or more, of damage with their's 2h, and that some enemys may resist damage from some elements or even be healed by some of them.

Also, i think that we should be able to cast brave and faith w/o the need of 2 hour ability.

[Merton9999]

Well, see, you still gotta call it Merton!

Yeah I'm not too excited about a 2-hour helix spell even if it has the best spell name in FF history. I'll wait to see the effects but I like your idea of a multi-element nuke better. I'm hoping SE implements something along these lines eventually, whether it's simple dual-element nukes or some mega all-element 2-hour nuke. I especially like your tie to weather and natural disasters, like we've learn to cause them by manipulating weather for 59 levels.

EDIT: Merton is listed as Dark magic skill, not necessarily dark element. I wonder what element it will be - maybe you'll actually get your all-element spell in helix form...

I'd have to think about an all-element nuke a bit (what staff do you use? What mobs would it not be useful in due to resistance/absorption?), but it sounds interesting at first read.

As far as Brave and Faith, I'll have to see potency first. I totally agree with you if Brave just ends up to be a simplified combination spell with the same potency as Adloquium + Haste + Regen.

[georgcantor316]

yay first post! there are only a few things that I really don't like about scholar, course these are just my opinions but. The worst is probably elemental celerity, I hate running with blms and they cast what feels like at least a third faster than I do on elemental spells. I feel like an inept douche when I start casting, blm runs up starts casting after me and gets it off still.
Another thing, this is obvious, but we need something taht approximates cure V. Although I do feel like I can cure better than a rdm or ne other expect whm.
The dark arts strategems kind of bug me as well, I feel like I'm always having to choose strats that increase my endurance over increasing my epeen.
I also feel that I can't help but under-utilize immanence, between staff swapping and then having to use too many strats to make immanence effective, unless there is pty co-op, makes me feel like the consept is flawed.
Also I think given the dependency on the strats there should be some sort of JT that occ. doesn't use a charge when I've used a strat.
I also think the mathematics in regards to the helix spells are horrendous but there you are.

[Economizer]

And I have another request, even though it's minor at best. I think scholars (and black mages) should be given access to the weaponskills that have been set aside for whm, pld, smn and mnk. It's annoying to have to sub white mage to have access to cataclysm, and not being able to hit staff red triggers as scholar is somewhat insulting.

Summoner does not get Cataclysm or most of the Staff weakness triggers either. The only classes that get all staff WS natively, without having to sub one of these classes is WAR, MNK, PLD, and WHM. This is because these classes are recognized as relying more on damage dealing with melee then nuking.

If you want to melee, you have to sacrifice something for that ability. In this case, you have to sacrifice spells like Sleepga or Phallanx and job traits like Magic Attack Bonus.

As a White Mage you have to make similar trade offs, such as choosing between /BLM for Warp/Stun/Sleep2/Tractor/Ice Spikes, /RDM for Refresh/Convert/Phallanx/Ice Spikes, or SCH for Light Arts/Sublimation/Strategems. If White Mage natively got Light Arts/Sublimation/Strategems, Scholars would be screaming bloody murder. I don't see why White Mage should have to make difficult choices about their subs if other jobs don't.

[Sotek]

If White Mage natively got Light Arts/Sublimation/Strategems, Scholars would be screaming bloody murder. I don't see why White Mage should have to make difficult choices about their subs if other jobs don't.

I'd say comparing giving Scholar a decent Weapon Skill lineup for Stagger procs to giving White Mage Light Arts, Sublimation and Stratagems is one of the dumbest things I've read, but sadly it isn't. It would probably hold more weight if White Mage wasn't already the sole source of healing power in the game, not to mention out meleeing what is arguably meant to be a melee mage. I'm sure SE has plans to make Banish IV and Holy II out do Meteor in terms of damage, too.

Seriously, the only reason I can imagine you'd come back with that kind of response to "Give Scholar Weapon Skills that do no damage" is because you don't want Scholar stepping on your precious toes. Honestly, at this point I'm ready to sledgehammer them.

[Economizer]

Please, reread what I said, hopefully after having some Chai or something to calm you down. The point of it is that each sub job has trade offs. Part of the package with /WHM is losing nuking power for more melee power, and currently, but very temporarily, Haste. I suppose there are also some very situational advantages involving not having to pop Add. White.

Should I have mentioned this more clearly then I already very clearly did, by say, mentioning them by name? Maybe. But it isn't something to get upset about. Please don't take things so personally, and if you do, don't get into a toe smashing contest with a White Mage. You won't ever win, they excel at smashing things with sledgehammers.

I really hope you aren't saying SCHOLAR is supposed to be a melee mage. Perhaps you mean Red Mage. But lets get this clear. White Mage has very useless nukes. Even the White Mages asking for the spells know that Banish IV and Holy II aren't going to do hardly any damage and will eat a ton of MP. In the end, Paladin is probably going to be more effective with them, provided when their job timer resets. White Mage, like every other class in this game, deserves a little bit of damage output. Both Scholar and Red Mage get varying levels of solid nuking power. White Mage does not. White Mage currently has very shakey rolls to back up on if we fall back into the dark ages of Colibri burn parties. Thus, White Mage is the mage with the most raw melee power, as this fits game balance.

Anyways, I didn't ever say that Scholar should have no damage weapon skills, White Mage was already given a few of those, and I can tell you that White Mages aren't so unkind to wish such harm on anyone. Without having to trade off anything in subs, Scholar already gets access to Spirit Taker and Retribution, two very solid WS. If you wish to get access to magic WS, you have to make a trade off however. I'm really sorry if this is frustrating, but that's game balance, and not something to get too upset about.

Although, if you really want to get a solid magical WS with no real tradeoffs, you could just sub Red Mage and merit Dagger a bit. You'll also get Phalanx, which really helps with AOE WS if you plan on farming in Abyssea with it, and even a crappy level 12 knife can put out major numbers with this WS, but you can equip a Blau Dolch. In Abyssea, Minikin/Gales/Beyond will augment this nicely while still filling out your role with easy, although you may find some other combination to your liking.

Omniscience is something else that comes to mind, I think it might be a elemental WS, but I don't actually have a lot of information about it at this time, so I can't really help you here. If anything should be a good damaging WS for Scholar, it would be that. Perhaps this could be the damage tool you may be looking for.

[Sotek]

The point of it is that each sub job has trade offs. Part of the package with /WHM is losing nuking power for more melee power, and currently, but very temporarily, Haste. I suppose there are also some very situational advantages involving not having to pop Add. White.

/White Mage doesn't add melee power, it adds two pathetic Weapon Skills and one OK one. /Warrior would add melee power and the Weapon Skills, to my knowledge. There is no trade off for melee power with /White Mage, if we're meleeing we're already trading off nukes. A main Black Mage would trade off Elemental Celerity, all its MAB and Magic Crit if it choose to melee because you can't nuke and melee at the same time. All the subjobs you mention are ones I'd already have to take into consideration anyway, regardless of wither I grew a brain tumor and decided to melee.

I really hope you aren't saying SCHOLAR is supposed to be a melee mage. Perhaps you mean Red Mage. But lets get this clear. White Mage has *** all for nukes. Even the White Mages asking for the spells know that Banish IV and Holy II aren't going to do hardly any damage and will eat a ton of MP.

Of course I'm talking about Red Mage. It has *** all for nukes compared to Scholar or Black Mage (which are *** compared to any DD in the game). *** all for Enfeebles pending the the changes in future update in which Scholar is also getting a bunch of new Enfeebles and my Phalanxga out shines its Phalanx II (and if SE is changing merits, I wouldn't be surprised if Phalanx II becomes a AoE spell that outdoes Phalanx, meaning my only role in the game is gone). Oh, and I already mentioned that what's meant to be a back line main healer and glass cannon (I'm talking about White Mage here incase you need some help with common sense) far out does it in terms of melee.

Although, if you really want to get a solid magical WS with no real tradeoffs, you could just sub Red Mage and merit Dagger a bit.

/Red Mage and do Dagger procs? That'd be great, I never have a Thief in my parties. Sarcasm, in case you missed it.

You'll also get Phalanx, which really helps with AOE WS if you plan on farming in Abyssea with it, and even a crappy level 12 knife can put out major numbers with this WS, but you can equip a Blau Dolch. In Abyssea, Minikin/Gales/Beyond will augment this nicely while still filling out your role with easy, although you may find some other combination to your liking.

You may want to name a Weapon Skill rather than just saying "This WS", I'm not a mind reader. I can only assume you mean Aeolian Edge, which may be a valid point, but I'd still rather have access to Weapon Skills on my C+ weapon rather than my D skilled weapon.

White Mage currently has very shakey rolls to back up on if we fall back into the dark ages of Colibri burn parties. Thus, White Mage is the mage with the most raw melee power, as this fits game balance.

White Mage has a absolute role in this game, compared to Scholar which has absolutely no role. It's the only real healer in the game, everything else doesn't stand a chance. If you're worried about Colibri burn parties coming back, look at the *** game. I can cap every job and merits in a couple of weeks. End game events are tossing out 15k EXP and everyone has auto-Reraise III, this game is never going back to merit parties so get *** over yourself, White Mage is the single most vital job in this game and apart from a very brief spell in ToAU, it always has been. It doesn't deserve melee power in the slightest. It doesn't even deserve updates anymore; not until SE can make a single job rival it for even a second, anyway.

Anyways, I didn't ever say that Scholar should have no damage weapon skills, White Mage was already given a few of those, and I can tell you that White Mages aren't so unkind to wish such harm on anyone.

Primarily we want Weapon Skills for red Stagger because in terms of Abyssea, something Scholar is completely lacking any viable role in. I'd rather have Helices proc yellow like they should, but I'm not going to turn down Weapon Skills. Earth Crusher and Sunburst aren't going to break the game or even effect balance in the slightest. Even if we got Cataclysm it wont do anything to effect game balance at all, as you've said we already get a couple of damaging Staff Weapon Skills, one more isn't going to change a thing.
The only reason anyone would want a full set of Weapon Skills on Scholar is for Immanence, which is stupid since in the time you waste meleeing for TP you could easily out damage your eventual Skill Chain with a couple of nukes. There is zero reason for Scholar to melee in this game and giving it three Weapon Skills isn't going to give it one. You could give Scholar Drakesbane but it still isn't going to equip a non-existent (or event) Polearm to melee just because it's got a great Weapon Skill for it.

How you get all defensive about the idea of Scholar having access to Weapon Skills that are not going to push Scholar into a melee oriented role in a thousand years is quite honestly beyond me. White Mage can equip a Club and Shield or two Clubs and practically solo anything thanks to Cure V and VI, which as I've said, is something it shouldn't even be able to do. Even if Scholar suddenly got a A+ in Staff (currently it has the same level of skill as White Mage) and could Triplewield the damn things, it's not going to be managing that. Grow *** up and stop pretending that Earth Crusher and Sunburst are going to have any effect on the balance (or lack off) between Scholar and White Mage in any way.

[sigma_star]

Nothing that hasn't been stated before, but I'd at least say it again to put in my vote - strength in numbers...

1)
Sch needs cure v or some equivalent, or SE at least needs to do us the courtesy of updating the Sch description to reflect what it really does (not) have for healing at end game.

2)
Until we start getting invites for the unique aspects of the class (I'll skip on naming them all), those unique aspects are underpowered. The empirical evidence speaks much louder than the loudest subjective opinion anyone has.
It doesn't really matter how "unique" something is if it's not useful, and if no group really cares if they have it or not.