[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] NIN

[Yawaru]

I'd like to see NIN with a better hate tool. Something like provoke, or a ninjutsu spell. Though if they reduce the resistance to elemental spells then it probably wouldn't be much of an issue, cause 8 dmg elemental spells don't pull much hate. A decent throwing weapon would also give some spike damage for hate, but it'd have to be like 300-500 dmg in a shot otherwise you might as well just keep meleeing. I think that's the biggest problem people have with the idea of throwing on NIN, a decently geared NIN with cap haste gear and a AF3+2 head and AF body will swing nearly constantly without haste, so there's no point losing an attack round or two for a 200 dmg ranged attack. It might make Sange a useful ability if you can put out 1K+ dmg in a shot but otherwise just making shurikens available won't make people want to use them.

[Kincard]

If we are to add upgrades to ninjutsu, we would like them to be learned as merit points similar to red mage, so we will look into this during our adjustment of merit points.

Bleh, no no no! I've been hearing this forever and it has never made sense to me. Please add in Ni spells naturally. San spells as 99-merits wouldn't be unreasonable, but making Ni spells as merits would be a waste of what otherwise would probably be in those slots. The Ni spells as natural spells would NOT be overpowered:

-Dokumori: Ni is a lame 3HP/tick poison and wouldn't be overpowered when any mage job with Poison II can do 10HP/tick. It would only be used as a quick hate-generating tool.
-Jubaku: Ni probably wouldn't be of much use either, given the comparison of Slow 1 VS Hojo: Ni, so this idea that those two spells somehow lessen the usefulness of RDM is ridiculous. The only use it would have is for cases where white magic paralyze isn't available and, again, hate generation.
-Aisha: Ichi is garbage. Blue Mage gets an equivalent potency of spell at level 40 that also does damage and has a shorter cast time. Even if the potency of Aisha: Ni wasn't higher, it'd make it worth casting just by virtue of it being so fast to pump out. It'd also gain value as a hate-generating tool. The same patch also added Infernal Scythe which I believe reduced attack about the same amount.
-Yurin: Ichi is an interesting spell, but since you want to cast it during combat, the amount of TP it cuts isn't worth 4 whole seconds.
-Myoshu: Ichi lasts way too short, so in any battle where you might want to limit your TP feeding (One that will probably last a while) you're going to want to reapply it, so you end up witht he same issue as Yurin. With this spell either increase the duration to be much longer (Utsusemi lasts 15 minutes if it's not dispelled or used up, why can't this?) or add a Ni spell with a lower casting time.
-Kakka: Ichi: Exact same problem as Myoshu. Like Myoshu, it's a bonus that would be nice to have if it wasn't so irritating/inefficient to keep the damn thing up.

Basically, stop giving NINs buffs and debuffs that only have Ichi levels. The issue isn't even the potency in a lot of cases- it's just the casting time and nothing else. I would love to have Myoshu and Yurin up a lot, but the four-second casting time is just way too much of a tradeoff. Even the 1.5 second + the spell delay from casting Nis puts a tink in the Ninja's DPS if you cast a lot of spells, so what makes the developers think 4 seconds is reasonable? The only spell where it made some sense to have the long cast of Ichi time was Migawari given the purpose of the spell. It's reasonable at low levels where everyone still takes a week to swing a weapon, but not at the high levels we're getting these spells.

Also some other general suggestions:
-Make Ninja Tool Expertise work with Futae please.
-Throwing in another vote for removing Innin's directional requirement.

Thanks.

[Cdryik]

-Make Ninja Tool Expertise work with Futae please.

I would say to better add "Ninja Tools Expertise" as a natural job trait (without merit) and expend it the more lvl you gain, like the dual wield trait for example,

Lv.15 Ninja tools expertise (10%)
Lv.30 Ninja tools expertise II (+10%)
Lv.45 Ninja tools expertise III (+10%)
Lv.60 Ninja tools expertise IV (+10%)
Lv.75 Ninja tools expertise V (+10%)
Lv.90 Ninja tools expertise VI (+10%)
Lv.99 Master ninja tools expertise (+30%)

For a total of Ninja tools expertise of 90% at Lv.99 . (90% is the cap, so you can't go for more)

Put off the "Ninja Tools Expertise" from merit/stuff/skills.
Make things cheaper, make think more enjoyable, make people doesn't depend on money for their own jobs.

Same things with Recycle.




Nexxus - Cerberus

[Eric]

I would say to better add "Ninja Tools Expertise" as a natural job trait (without merit) and expend it the more lvl you gain, like the dual wield trait for example,

Lv.15 Ninja tools expertise (10%)
Lv.30 Ninja tools expertise II (+10%)
Lv.45 Ninja tools expertise III (+10%)
Lv.60 Ninja tools expertise IV (+10%)
Lv.75 Ninja tools expertise V (+10%)
Lv.90 Ninja tools expertise VI (+10%)
Lv.99 Master ninja tools expertise (+30%)

For a total of Ninja tools expertise of 90% at Lv.99 . (90% is the cap, so you can't go for more)

Put off the "Ninja Tools Expertise" from merit/stuff/skills.
Make things cheaper, make think more enjoyable, make people doesn't depend on money for their own jobs.

Same things with Recycle.




Nexxus - Cerberus

Everyone who has ever crafted tools for gil just cried in pain at your terrible idea.
If NIN is too expensive for you, go play another job.

[Nightfyre]

Everyone who has ever crafted tools for gil just cried in pain at your terrible idea.
If NIN is too expensive for you, go play another job.

Universal tools from the Bastok vendor rendered other tools almost obsolete for NIN main, so who cares? I only carry Shihei and universal tools in active inventory when on NIN due to inventory restrictions. I keep a stack of Monomi/Tonko tools in sack but that's moreso for when I'm /NIN really, on NIN I never remember/care to take them out. Only reason I'd ever consider buying non-universal tools is if I had to cover NIN procs in Voidwatch while on a different job.

The numerical values provided are pretty unrealistic, but it's not a terrible idea.

[Eric]

Universal tools from the Bastok vendor rendered other tools almost obsolete for NIN main, so who cares? I only carry Shihei and universal tools in active inventory when on NIN due to inventory restrictions. I keep a stack of Monomi/Tonko tools in sack but that's moreso for when I'm /NIN really, on NIN I never remember/care to take them out. Only reason I'd ever consider buying non-universal tools is if I had to cover NIN procs in Voidwatch while on a different job.

The numerical values provided are pretty unrealistic, but it's not a terrible idea.

It slipped my mind that this would only apply for NIN main. I guess it's not a bad idea after all.

[Cdryik]

Everyone who has ever crafted tools for gil just cried in pain at your terrible idea.
If NIN is too expensive for you, go play another job.

It slipped my mind that this would only apply for NIN main. I guess it's not a bad idea after all.

Yes, Nin only, but, the fact is, i really have thoses ninja tools expertise number (merit + yonin + AFv2+1 hands (+ katana)), so.. why not just put them as job trait, and get them off the stuff/skills/merits. So we could merit something more usefull.

Dont think i'm poor, but i just think main jobs doesn't have to be based on your moneybag to be played.


Nexxus - Cerberus

[Kincard]

"So we could merit something more usefull."

lol

[wish12oz]

"So we could merit something more usefull."

lol

Maybe he thinks SE will make something in the NIN merit catagory worth having and using as well as adding NTE!
I would be all for this btw, but I don't think it would ever happen~

[Nightfyre]

Did you even read what you responded to?