[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

[Ganukay]

The only weapons that desperately need a fix at this point are Mythics. SE came so close to making that questline great until they plopped the 30,000 Alexandrite requirement on it, making it nigh impossible to complete a Mythic at this point now that Salvage is dead.

this. so hard to find alexandrites, lately.

[Rambus]

If you consider the factors going into both weapons, I honestly feel relics are not that hard to get. For everyone throwing around the argument that "baaw, my relic is crap compared to something I could get in a week," here's a crazy thought: why don't you get an Empyrean? You just said it was easy, right?

Relics only need money and two NMs in Dynamis. People are only restricted by the amount of currency they can buy/handle at any given time. One of my friends completed Spharai in around 3 months just by bazaaring in Upper Jeuno. The majority of time spent upgrading a relic is simply through farming Gil and buying currency. To me, that isn't hard. Yes, you could throw in the "2 years of sponsored Dynamis" argument, but really, money is all it essentially boils down to.

Empyreans, by comparison, are all time investment and work, made easier by the constant level cap increases. If you were one of the pioneers, going for say, a Masamune at level 80, you'd have probably needed an alliance to take down Carabosse. Anyone can get a relic. Dynamis isn't hard, especially now. Relic owners obtained their weapons through monetary investments. Empyrean owners obtained their weapons through time investments.

I will agree the original relic trial upgrade criteria were absolutely crazy though.

The only weapons that desperately need a fix at this point are Mythics. SE came so close to making that questline great until they plopped the 30,000 Alexandrite requirement on it, making it nigh impossible to complete a Mythic at this point now that Salvage is dead.

I just feel this argument is going exactly the same way as those nostalgic people from the CoP era. You got a relic when it was hard, and now you're upset that years and 15 levels later, there's now something better.

Boo freaking hoo. It doesn't cheapen the achievement, just get with the times.

problem, you said relics are easier now becauase of new level caps right? well emps are the same way. emps got drasically easier then relics did, you went from allys to solo/duo.

can you solo the dyna nms?
can you solo dyna?

you can solo emps though.

people really need to stop saying its only money and money is easy to get.

[Crysten]

problem, you said relics are easier now becauase of new level caps right? well emps are the same way. emps got drasically easier then relics did, you went from allys to solo/duo.

can you solo the dyna nms?
can you solo dyna?

you can solo emps though.

people really need to stop saying its only money and money is easy to get.

Dual/Tri-boxing =/= Soloing. If you can box Empyreans, you can box Dynamis.

While you can solo certain mobs without any major issue these days (Briareus and Cirein-Croin come to mind specifically, POSSIBLY Sobek if you're lucky), I would love to see you solo Carabosse, Bukhis, Glavoid and numerous other Empyrean NMs without a second character.

Dynamis can be lowmanned easily. Dynamis 2.0 is probably going to make it several times easier.

Money isn't hard to get unless you're stupid. Have you even seen the amount of money people will pay for stupid things like Ironclad drops and Catarae kills now, as well as HNM drops back in the day?

Anethia put it by far the best way. You can continue sitting around crying for your updates. An easy, cheap and low risk alternative is sitting right on your lap and you're turning your nose up at it. The only reason I can even fathom people getting upset over this is pride. You spent time getting your awesome weapon, but now there's something better.

If you're going simply by difficulty and time spent obtaining the weapon, then Mythics need to be adjusted with way more urgency before ANY Relic or Empyrean.

I spent 2 years and 20 million Gil in Salvage to get my full Usukane set and Empyrean armour slaps all that work in the face. Does that mean I'm automatically entitled to Salvage upgrades and get to whine when they won't be on par with AF3+2? Of course not, I just set myself new goals to improve my character!

[Rambus]

Dual/Tri-boxing =/= Soloing. If you can box Empyreans, you can box Dynamis.

While you can solo certain mobs without any major issue these days (Briareus and Cirein-Croin come to mind specifically, POSSIBLY Sobek if you're lucky), I would love to see you solo Carabosse, Bukhis, Glavoid and numerous other Empyrean NMs without a second character.

Dynamis can be lowmanned easily. Dynamis 2.0 is probably going to make it several times easier.

Money isn't hard to get unless you're stupid. Have you even seen the amount of money people will pay for stupid things like Ironclad drops and Catarae kills now, as well as HNM drops back in the day?

Anethia put it by far the best way. You can continue sitting around crying for your updates. An easy, cheap and low risk alternative is sitting right on your lap and you're turning your nose up at it. The only reason I can even fathom people getting upset over this is pride. You spent time getting your awesome weapon, but now there's something better.

I spent 2 years and 20 million Gil in Salvage to get my full Usukane set and Empyrean armour slaps all that work in the face. Does that mean I'm automatically entitled to Salvage upgrades and get to whine when they won't be on par with AF3+2? Of course not, I just set myself new goals to improve my character!

No i mean solo, you can brew anything you want, you can brew any emp NM and take it down with one brew.

for 75>80 have exp pt, solo farm KI, or solo kill normal mob and get KI. use brew to kill NM if needed, some job can solo 75>80 NM and solo the KI NM too, depending on the emp

80>85 is a bit more tricky but common to get groups that want +2 gear. If needed you can solo farm KI and brew NM. You can collect KI tell people you can lot xxx but the emp items are mine to save brewing. Collecting any emp KI is soloable from what I seen. Maybe there is a few that is very hard solo I do not know.

85>90, same as 80>85

you can really speed it up having 2 to 4 people each doign a weapon but the 85>90 will still need to be brewed.

I would LOVE to see 4 people clear dyna at 90 and not only that pop and kill paper NM, and pop and kill shard NM.

mythic? you really think 1-4 people can kill those NMs?

you spending 2 years on salvage gear is your fault , it did not take much thought to know those drop rates where too poor to deal with.

I never did salvage hard core, the drop rates made me mad, I helped others though, Once i made a pact in saying I get no drop for alex.

besides salvage armor =/= relic weapons. you your self said 20 mil for subpar armor ( i really dont understand why you would go for more then feet) most of salvage gear was weak to begin with, I did not hear SE say salavge gear is the best so we are making it hard to get. SE did however say relics where suppose to be the top and mythics under them when mythics came out.

new =/= better

This is like saying there needs to be a balance between an onion sword and excalbur.

how do you figure?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

how do you figure?

I'm saying that they're trying to update something that is old making it unnescisarily as powerful as something new. An onion sword doesn't need to be on par with excalabur just as much as excalabur doesn't need to beat an Empyrean in stats. Are you still using 32RSE legs over empyrean+2?

[Crysten]

No i mean solo, you can brew anything you want, you can brew any emp NM and take it down with one brew.

for 75>80 have exp pt, solo farm KI, or solo kill normal mob and get KI. use brew to kill NM if needed, some job can solo 75>80 NM and solo the KI NM too, depending on the emp

...seriously?

So if you were to solo brew everything, let's say for the sake of an example: Masamune.

Assuming you want to brew the lesser NMs (which, if you are, you're automatically stupid) - 25 times each minimum assuming you get red/KI every time:

La Theine Leige: 25 times, 8 brews (assuming a one shot on brew, and 3 kills a brew), 1.6 million Cruor.
Baba Yaga: 25 times, 8 brews, 1.6 million Cruor.
Carabosse: 25 times, 8 brews, 1.6 million Cruor.

EDIT: Slight exaggeration on my OP, I didn't factor in killtime.

I dunno about you, but we're looking at a fair bit of time just to get the cruor you need to brew everything for the level 80 version. It's certainly gonna take you more than a week!

80>85 is a bit more tricky but common to get groups that want +2 gear. If needed you can solo farm KI and brew NM. You can collect KI tell people you can lot xxx but the emp items are mine to save brewing. Collecting any emp KI is soloable from what I seen. Maybe there is a few that is very hard solo I do not know.

Same thing applies here. Grouping up with people at this point automatically makes your argument of "soloing an Empyrean" invalid if you're going to brew it all. So assume another 4-5 million cruor for this stage at least (though of course you can solo Croin on RDM, so you could argue it both ways)!

85>90, same as 80>85

Sure is.

mythic? you really think 1-4 people can kill those NMs?

You didn't read what I said. Mythics need a huge adjustment in their difficulty/performance ratio. Mythics need to be better than Empyreans, I believe.

you spending 2 years on salvage gear is your fault , it did not take much thought to know those drop rates where too poor to deal with.

Spending 5 years on a Yoichi is also your fault/decision. Pot, this is the kettle. He's black.

besides salvage armor =/= relic weapons. you your self said 20 mil for subpar armor

You've never played MNK before, have you?

[Wheels]

As a relic owner myself(Mandau and Annihilator both lvl 90) I can honestly say my damage is pretty close to the empyrean weapons of the same type. Mercy Stroke is too spread out with damage but Eviceration does 3.8k-4.2k damage almost all the time. Coronach does alot as well around 3k-6k and have seen barrage do as high as 10k with triple proc of course. It just seems that certain weapons(Relics) can still maintain their sweet damage while others seem to be greatly needed of improvement. I have several Apoc's in LS and these guys that have it, upgraded Empyrean great axe because Apoc damage is suffering. And yes the trials before nerf for relics/mythics were severally painful and always fighting for mobs when an alliance shows up to kill the same thing you are killing. I tried to do trials with these alliances but they never got the concept that I need killshot so wasted my time and rolled out of alliance. All in all yes I agree relics/mythics really do need a damage boost for some weapons but like I said there is a few that already is good.

[Cream_Soda]

lol, didn't read the stickes, oh well. Still a lot of mayad up in here

[Anethia]

I am in no way againts making relic weapons easier to obtain. In fact I welcome it. since i started playing in 2004 i've been wanting an excalibur, aegis, and gungir. the biggest issue i had was how much time it was going to take, time that i frankly didn't have. I like the idea of relic weapons being easier to obtain cause that means I might be able to finish more than one and not have to spend 4-5 years doing it.

I applaud you relic holders for getting your relic weapons, good for you. I was happy to finally get my valor surcoat after waiting for 2 years to get one, an armor piece which has been pretty much outdated since the release of ToAU. That being said, was I upset to see SE start adjusting relic drop rates when myself and many others i know waited months, if not years to get a specific relic piece? I was a little irritated, until I realized that it also works in my favor, making it easier for my to get relic for my other 4 jobs.

As for making them more powerful, you have magian trials to upgrade them, and who knows it might have a synergy recipe too to add more stats. All the time you spend crying that your weapon is outdated could be spent making it better or working on another one. Let the rest of us who have spent the last 7 years in the shadows finally have some time in the sun.

[Alderin]

As for making them more powerful, you have magian trials to upgrade them, and who knows it might have a synergy recipe too to add more stats. All the time you spend crying that your weapon is outdated could be spent making it better or working on another one. Let the rest of us who have spent the last 7 years in the shadows finally have some time in the sun.

A lvl 90 Empyrean vs. lvl 90 Relic (obtained via Magian trials since the cap rise) is still massively underpowered compared to their less-effort counterparts.

They are complaining for a valid reason - Even the magian moogles won't give them a weapon that is up to par for the time spent.