[dev100x] Relic & Mythic Weapon Adjustments

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The trial from 85-90 relic takes 2 1/2 weeks MIN. You can do 3-4 emp in that time. So SE fix the relics and Mythics.

So your request is to leave them as is, trials included, but to lower the trial requirments. That I can support.

[ffxkenshin]

You only see it as negative because it suits your argument.

The Uncle is, of course, SE. The relative is, oh lets say Cream because they are readily available example. You are the relic owner. The only investment they have made is time. That's it. You have spent 6 years making and saving for your relic, and they spent 2 weeks making an Empyrean at no cost.

I don't own one, but I'm willing to take the banner of their side because no matter how you explain it away the fact remains: They got more for less, and I at least deserve the money I've spent since I can't get the time back. The actual least they could do is make Empyreans harder or relics more effective in Abyssea. The scales are not balanced. It may be entitlement, but it is righteous entitlement and not as self-serving as you are trying to say. If Empyreans were even CLOSE to the challenge of relics, then the fact they are better would be well-deserved. But they aren't, and so Empyreans are now owned by every jerk-off with an excess of 2 friends, a LS, or enough patience to shout. Which, btw, you can't do even with the dynamis adjustments more than once every day.

Wow, I can't believe I read 14 pages of this going back and forth...

First let me state I own none of the 3 that's mention in the thread (relic, mystic, emp). I have 8 jobs to 90 now, and all was leveled to 75 before level cap, so don't start assuming/accusing me of "that new player that knows no hard work" talk.. I did not level any more new job to 90 since abyssea neither...

I was going to reply after reading what everyone has to say, and if someone already said what I was going to say, I'm just gonna not post at all, but up until your post.. i couldn't help myself but say this:

Something that took more time and effort pre-abyssea time should be of better value to the player? BS to it's core.. it's like saying.. "I spent 5 years in a HNM LS camping everyday for 3 hours for a HNM and waited in lines for all that time to get my XXXX (be it a.body, ridill, n.body, e.body, etc,etc), that XXXX needs to be the top notch piece of gear compare to the easy to get AF3+1, Irongiant gear, etc, etc" (yes I'm saying only +1 b/c they are even easier to get) What kind of argument is that?!

SE already admitted failure in how the original game design was bad and wanted to make a big chance for the better (time grinding on HNM for example), they make quite a few change w/ HNM, but never ever able to simply b/c those are still the considerable "best" piece you can get in game, so in the end, Abyssea came in along w/ the level increase, finally marks the sunset of a problem that EVERYONE, new and old players alike, has complained over many years. Now my question is, why the hack would people keep referring "oh that's how SE has FFXI worked for the many years we played it" ... "it should be that way still" talk.. this bothers me quite a lot..

Someone keep saying SE never meant to replace old gear pre-abyssea.. seriously? yes, there are plenty of gear that is still useful even @ 90 now-a-day, however, to state that there are nearly none is absurd... Cream_Soda already gave a few example.. enough to kick your claim .. then you come back to say .. "oh not the full set is replaced"... I believe initially you were only asking to name some piece for argument sake.. I'm not (and i'm sure those opposing your statement too) are not going to waste time trying to find the gear that did fully replace an older gear.. b/c yes we all know they exist.

To be honest.. IMO...SE did the trials for relic more than likely knowing that there will be these relic owner that will go crazy if they didn't.. maybe not so much really wanting relic.. an older than older content from the old days to still dominates...

and also while you at it.. it's the same argument over other threads about "oh how unfair of SE".. "SE shouldn't this".. "SE shouldn't that".. dynamis WILL be made easier.. ancient currency will "cost" (gil or effort wise) less.. the nm to upgrade due to level increase has become a TON easier than it is pre-abyssea.. so what's your next complaint? "damn i spend good 2 years to get my relic.. why should ppl be able to get it in 3 months or less.. that's so unfair.. SE should make relic that was obtained pre-abyssea 1-2 tier stronger than those newly obtained".... I can see it coming if not already in ppl's mind or already on forum's thread I didn't read...

[Rambus]

5/5 Usukane is not/should not be full time by nin/pup/sam/mnk.

I am sure there is better mix setups for ws ( doono about mnk)

even if mnk can tp and ws in full usu, what about tanking? and so forth..

maybe mnks can full time it but there is a lot of macro gear that uss has not replaced for mnk,nin and guessing pup since there may be pet gear to make it cast more or something? i dont know.

from 2003 to abyssea, there has not been a single piece of gear that i know off of hand that COMPELTEY got replaced.
some of that gear can still be used even now ....

name one....

there is a lot of af, af+1, relic, relic +1, other 70-75 gear that still has not got replaced.

and a level 63 weapon, level 55 belt..
technically you have replaced a set of level 51 weapons but why does it require 20-30 to completely replace those 8? ( though this is talking about past abyssea now)

[Cream_Soda]

5/5 Usukane is not/should not be full time by nin/pup/sam/mnk.

I am sure there is better mix setups for ws ( doono about mnk)

If you're talking about now, then none of the jobs should use 5/5.

If you're talking about lv 75, 5/5 usu was best for mnk and one of the, if not the best set for pup as well. Sam made use out of body and feet. Nin made use of feet.

even if mnk can tp and ws in full usu, what about tanking? and so forth..

Again, if you're talking about 75, full usu also won for tanking, using PDT when (well I really never used it unless counterstance was dispelled)...

Now if you're talking about damage, every piece of usu got replaced for all jobs that could use it with the exception of pup using the legs for ws.

from 2003 to abyssea, there has not been a single piece of gear that i know off of hand that COMPELTEY got replaced.
some of that gear can still be used even now ....

name one....

A few pieces of usu still have utility in a lolevasion build, if you're trying to do that, but other than that it's worthless.

[Rambus]

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

I am sure it was the best for ws/tp for pup but pup does other things.

[Cream_Soda]

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

I am sure it was the best for ws/tp for pup but pup does other things.

If you're talking about mnk, usu was replacing

Turban/Togi(+1)/Bkote/Byakko's/Fuma. for TP. Usu legs replaced shura haidate+1 until it was replaced by Hachiryu Haidate. Usu shoes replaced w/e the fk mnks used (was limited lol options), until being replaced by af3+1(+2)

If you're talking pup, I had full usu before I lv'd pup, so couldn't tell you there.

[Rambus]

If you're talking about mnk, usu was replacing

Turban/Togi(+1)/Bkote/Byakko's/Fuma. for TP. Usu legs replaced shura haidate+1 until it was replaced by Hachiryu Haidate. Usu shoes replaced w/e the fk mnks used (was limited lol options), until being replaced by af3+1(+2)

If you're talking pup, I had full usu before I lv'd pup, so couldn't tell you there.

I was talking more so of relic/ af macros but I can't remember what was first, usu or relic. With byakko's legs is that it was not replaced for SAM and its still isn't. (pretty sure war, bst still used them for tp)

for sam now in regards with Byakko's pants:
with +2 though you have to say your magic capped and not using the STP witch will not be common. Still has a limited use for sam though, to go with my point SE has a hard time replacing gear.

Bkote was still used by rng then and it was still agured if skadi or bkote was best for ws.

turban was not replaced with all jobs, and now holds true till you get +1, or +2 heads for all your jobs.

even then mages dont have haste on thier heads so it can be used in macros and can be used down to puch some recasts down.

[Penance]

It only takes one week to get an empyrean? What have I been doing wrong...

I understand the problem though, I do believe that those weapons should have a similar increase. Though for one handed weapons like sword/club etc i do not feel that one should be able to dual wield these weapons and be overpowered either. I dont feel that they should be (much) better though.

But there are still updates to come in which im sure the relic/mythic will get another update.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Arguments is for 75, since my statement was "SE really did not replace gear pre abyssea" but the thing is what was usu replacing?

So you're saying that pre-TAU you didn't use any gear.

[Rambus]

It only takes one week to get an empyrean? What have I been doing wrong...

I understand the problem though, I do believe that those weapons should have a similar increase. Though for one handed weapons like sword/club etc i do not feel that one should be able to dual wield these weapons and be overpowered either.

But there are still updates to come in which im sure the relic/mythic will get another update.

I am worried about some mythics.

I am talking about the ones that where useless at 75 and still useless

Mainly fits the mage ones.

lifting caps at 75 would help pld with Atonement do more damage, so there is more issues then the mythics them selfs.

So you're saying that pre-TAU you didn't use any gear.

new macro gear =/= replace.
understand this, and maybe you been missing my point.

WHAT gear that was out in 2003/3004 no longer used before abyssea?
i even listed some gear that is still used today from then.

see my usu comments