[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] RDM

[Greatguardian]

we want them to put their foot down and just stick to a direction with the job already, but SE themselves are slow to let go of their "magical swordsman" image

Er, sorry, I just noticed this, but as far as I can tell, SE has fairly solidly put their foot down and said that Red Mage is an Enhancing and Enfeebling mage. The only reason they bring up melee at all is because so many people here post about it, and even then they clearly stated that they were looking to improve Red Mage's HNM-level party/group play and focus on its Enhancing and Enfeebling prowess.

It's a niche group of players who are keeping the "Magical Swordsman" archetype alive, that and a 10-year-old character blurb on a website that likely hasn't seen any updates to the old job sections in ... well, 10 years. Everyone else, SE included, is perfectly content with Red Mage as a Buff/Debuff master with a broad range of spells across both the light and dark spectrum.

[SpankWustler]

I'm still wondering about this glorious party play style that seemingly doesn't involve casting buffs or cures, because we know you're not meleeing.

Any party play style that didn't involve casting Haste here and there or the odd Cure IV would be a pretty awful play style. They're not there for decoration, they're in the spell list so they can be cast when needed.

Also, a party play style that consists only of casting cures and buffs would get old after a bit, wouldn't it? I guess that's why spells like Dia III, Blizzard IV, and whatnot are also available to SpankWustler. Actually, I think it could out-damage Black Mage and Scholar over time for a brief time between updates/level-cap increases. Between levels 85 and 90, maybe?

New enhancing and enfeebling magic would definitely make SpankWustler more interesting to play, but even at this very moment, you have options other than being a pure healer or scampering up to a monster to flip it's Frankenfurters.

I don't understand why so many SpankWustlers who want to flip Frankenfurters think the only other option is to cast the same three spells over and over. It's not. You have many things you can cast at things.

Along those lines, more things to cast at things would certainly liven the job up a bit. Since that's exactly what SE seems inclined to add to the job, given what's been said so far, I choose to be optimistic for the future of SpankWustler.

It doesn't sound like the ability to flip Frankenfurters is being completely ignored, either. Maybe the new en-spell will be more helpful than the tier II line, which was basically "Additional Effect: Drop the Frankenfurter on a profoundly unclean floor, hope nobody notices, and put it back on the griddle quickly and covertly."

So don't worry, some poor dude at SE definitely knows you guys and your perceived need to flip Frankenfurters exists.

[Quetzacoatl]

Just did a Translation with Google Chrome of this post from the JP forums:

こんにちは。

先日、回避ダウン効果の魔法として上位のグラビデを検討しているという回答をしましたが、更なる検討の結果、上位のグラビデは赤魔道士専用の魔法になり、サポートジョブ赤魔道士の場合も含め、他のジョブでは使用できないものになりそうという方向性になりました。

グラビデの上位版に期待していた皆さんには残念なお知らせで、本当にごめんなさい。

類似効果の学者用新魔法を用意したりする予定は……という点についてですが、せっかく新しい魔法を追加するのであれば学者特有のものにしたいということで、学者には別途専用の魔法（例えばTPスリップとか）を検討しているとのことです。こちらについては今後またご紹介できればと思います。

Into this:

Hello. Recently, I have the answer that you are considering a higher Gravity down to avoid a magical effect, the results of further study, the higher will be the magic of Gravity only Red Mage, Red Mage support job even if included in other jobs that direction now likely to be unavailable. I expected everyone to know superset of Gravity is unfortunate, really sorry. New plans or to provide for scholars of magic effects ... but for similar terms, are unique in that we want to scholars if you add a new spell much trouble, only to scholars of magic separately (eg Toka Slip TP) that is considering that. For here I hope to introduce in the future.

Basically, Gravity 2 will be RDM only. Thanks SE!

Oh, and sorry, SCHs.

[Raksha]

Just did a Translation with Google Chrome of this post from the JP forums:



Into this:



Basically, Gravity 2 will be RDM only. Thanks SE!

Oh, and sorry, SCHs.

Yeah I didn't imagine SCH was gonna get Gravity II at all, and for damn sure not above RDM.

No apologies necessary.

[Quetzacoatl]

Yeah I didn't imagine SCH was gonna get Gravity II at all, and for damn sure not above RDM.

No apologies necessary.

You, ma'am, are a lady (or gentleman depending!) and a SCH. :P

Although, I am expecting a wave of posts consisting of "YOU LIED TO US!!1!!!!1!" coming from other users. That'll be lovely.

[Raksha]

You, ma'am, are a lady (or gentleman depending!) and a SCH. :P

Although, I am expecting a wave of posts consisting of "YOU LIED TO US!!1!!!!1!" coming from other users. That'll be lovely.

Potential ToAU spoilers:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/990...0807204636.png

Would've been better if I could've actually solo'd him on SCH ;_;

[Economizer]

Martyr?

No. These are not job defining traits, merely accents, bonuses to what they already preform. For a Red Mage, they're our bread and butter, piratically a necessity to be considered worth ANYTHING outside what someone else could do by simply equipping Red Mage as a subjob.

If you are going to choose the bad merits (I don't know about the others, but I don't know a White Mage that fully merits Martyr, and only a handful that merit it once) that don't define a class for some of these examples, you point won't be proven well. A White Mage is defined by having Shellra V fully merited. I don't respect White Mages that have had time to merit that don't choose to merit Shellra V 5/5.

Sure, some merits are debatable in how much they contribute to what a job is, but how many Dancers do you know that don't merit Reverse Flourish to full? Certain merits are part of what a job is, and saying that a job doesn't need its merits (which are easy to get anyways) to function at peak efficiency is a bit of a joke.

Maybe Red Mages don't merit everything the same way, but I'd kill for just one of Dia III, Paralyze II, or Slow II as a White Mage. But those are not spells White Mage gets to even have a shot at, because Red Mage is the proper enfeebler.

-

On Red Mage melee, I've seen Red Mages melee things in ways that spit on the image this thread keeps trying to push toward the devs. Red Mage's biggest strength is survivability, and whittling down opponents, but these days Red Mage is also pushing out bigger and bigger damage numbers too. But even then, there is a lot of buffing/debuffing done to make fights go smoothly. I'm sorry if you can't just melee a mob and expect it to auto-attack and win like a WAR or a MNK fighting something, but this is the nature of what Red Mage is. You have to use all your job's roles to the fullest in order to solo, especially if you want to solo things that shouldn't be solo'd, like mythical Red Mages in the days of yore.

There are legit complains about Red Mage melee, but given some of the comments (like saying Red Mage hasn't been given a magical WS) suggest to me that many Red Mages in here might expect to equip their nuking gear, a sword, and be able to outdamage a Warrior. It takes a lot of work and specialized gear to be a proper melee if you are a Red Mage. There is some good news for Red Mage however, as it has some very nice toys available for this purpose, like an Atheling Mantle.

[Kristal]

Add higher tier En-spells.

Planning to add these during the next version update. However, this isn’t going to be the tier-III version, we are thinking about a different type of En-spell.

Add an ability that enhances the effect of En-spells.

We would like to look into perhaps having this take place through merit points.

Something I'd like to see is both tiers of enspell stacking(as in, both being active) if they are the same element. For instance, Enfire II and Enfire. Enfire II would affect the first hit, and Enfire any additional hits granted by dual wield, Double/Triple/Quadruple Attack or Occasionally Attacks x Times. Currently, this will work for any other non-enspell added effect, but not for tier I enspells. For instance, Twilight Knife with Enfire II active will deal additional fire damage on the first hit, and it's own added effects on any other hits. The same goes with Samba effects, a RDM/DNC will deal additional fire damage on the first hit, while Drain Samba will proc on the remaining hits.

Another thing I've been thinking about, is an ability similar to MNK's Formless Strikes for RDM. All melee hits become non-elemental magical hits, with a notable difference: an active enspell II will change the element of the regular hit to match the enspell II effect. Attack and Accuracy would be replaced by Magic Attack and Magic Accuracy, which would go well with the Empyrean armor set.

[Doombringer]

Any party play style that didn't involve casting Haste here and there or the odd Cure IV would be a pretty awful play style. They're not there for decoration, they're in the spell list so they can be cast when needed.

Also, a party play style that consists only of casting cures and buffs would get old after a bit, wouldn't it? I guess that's why spells like Dia III, Blizzard IV, and whatnot are also available to SpankWustler. Actually, I think it could out-damage Black Mage and Scholar over time for a brief time between updates/level-cap increases. Between levels 85 and 90, maybe?

New enhancing and enfeebling magic would definitely make SpankWustler more interesting to play, but even at this very moment, you have options other than being a pure healer or scampering up to a monster to flip it's Frankenfurters.

I don't understand why so many SpankWustlers who want to flip Frankenfurters think the only other option is to cast the same three spells over and over. It's not. You have many things you can cast at things.

Along those lines, more things to cast at things would certainly liven the job up a bit. Since that's exactly what SE seems inclined to add to the job, given what's been said so far, I choose to be optimistic for the future of SpankWustler.

It doesn't sound like the ability to flip Frankenfurters is being completely ignored, either. Maybe the new en-spell will be more helpful than the tier II line, which was basically "Additional Effect: Drop the Frankenfurter on a profoundly unclean floor, hope nobody notices, and put it back on the griddle quickly and covertly."

So don't worry, some poor dude at SE definitely knows you guys and your perceived need to flip Frankenfurters exists.

dude... give it up.. the spankwustler thing wasn't that funny, EVER.. and you're just makin' it sad...

[Duelle]

Red Mage's biggest strength is survivability, and whittling down opponents, but these days Red Mage is also pushing out bigger and bigger damage numbers too. But even then, there is a lot of buffing/debuffing done to make fights go smoothly. I'm sorry if you can't just melee a mob and expect it to auto-attack and win like a WAR or a MNK fighting something, but this is the nature of what Red Mage is. You have to use all your job's roles to the fullest in order to solo, especially if you want to solo things that shouldn't be solo'd, like mythical Red Mages in the days of yore.

You're speaking of solo play, whereas the melee camp's gripes are in the context of party play and the lack of acceptance due to factors already covered in several other threads.

There are legit complains about Red Mage melee, but given some of the comments (like saying Red Mage hasn't been given a magical WS) suggest to me that many Red Mages in here might expect to equip their nuking gear, a sword, and be able to outdamage a Warrior.

Why would you present a false premise like that? You wear melee gear to front-line. It's pretty obvious. The melee gear isn't enough, though. This has also been discussed.