[Job Adjustmentｓ Manifesto] WHM

[Fredjan]

While SE has not made any more posts about what's incoming for White Mage, I'll mention what I think the job could benefit from, and what I strongly disagree on.

First thing, White Mage will never, ever, get Auto-Regain, anyone could tell that's the case. We're not designed to be a melee job, although we can have fun with our clubs sometimes - I'm all too familiar >.>, fact is, White Mage is the strongest "mage" (this isn't factoring BLU though) melee when we want to melee things that justify it, solely due to Hexa Strike. We aren't getting a trait that'd go to a melee no questions asked if it went to one. TL;DR: I have yet to see them consider an Auto-Regain trait for any job, let alone a mage that only benefits from it front-lining that's designed to be in the back-line.

Second, updates that are given to White Mage through the Manifesto are *not* likely going to include the front-line melee role (Honestly, I view Auspice as a Subtle Blow spell, with the Enlight for the WHM under Misery as an added bonus). You can tell they didn't even bring it up - it's like on some other mages who have certain people saying they should be meleeing - Red Mage, Summoner, etc... not one mention. SE's vision of these jobs involves back-lining, and I'm perfectly content with that.

White Mage is flat out not going to be meleeing anything in serious events. We're healers in serious events, and we're not exactly meant to DD, end of story. Sure, anything that was serious at 75, knock yourself out, you should have no problem, but once 99 end-game content comes out, we know what we're going to be doing: Healing, and that's what people are going to want White Mages for. If I want to play a DD in these endgame events, I have Dark Knight for that. When it comes to offensive magic, I wouldn't mind seeing newer Banish spells and Holy II.

AoE damage can indeed be extremely dangerous for mages, White Mages are no exception. I do walk into AoE range kinda frequently, but it's for our barspells most of the time. I do think we should see the other 2 elements as barspells, though I suppose we do get an extra challenge without them. Any other case, in most scenarios, we're better off out of mob's range if possible, while still being able to cure people. When the AoE damage is somewhat worth justifying being in range, you could benefit from Misery, and use the Cura line of spells. They don't restore a ton of HP, but they can be pretty MP efficient.

Regen casting time is waaaaay too long. It shouldn't take longer to cast then cure, and even if it was a snap cast like stun it would still see limited use.

A lot of people do prefer to cure the HP immediately as compared to an over-time effect. Even with Fast Cast gear, and /SCH (I would say /RDM, but a /SCH can cast faster with Celerity; nevermind the fact I never sub RDM), cures will always go off faster than Regen spells due to cure cast time gear and cure cast time merits. Take Regen IV for example, wiki has it listed as taking 5 seconds to cast, vs. Cure VI being 2.5. People simply prefer to heal the HP faster, and cures will always do that compared to Regen.

At the same time, the Regen line is designed to gradually cure people over time, while saving MP doing so. When the mob doesn't damage the person much, tossing a Regen will take care of their HP, saving the MP one'd use casting a cure instead. Outside of Abyssea, MP conservation is more important (and we all better get used to it!), so we will see more use of it. Inside of Abyssea, it's nearly meaningless to try to conserve MP - I have infinite MP most of the time due to atma, as do most, and I can spam Cure V/VI fairly easily without worry of even coming close to low MP, unless I'm curing a MNK/WAR that lost Counterstance or something and they're still tanking with zero PDT- gear.

With regards to Cure VI, sure, one can heal for ~1500 or more with that spell, but outside of abyssea, that truly is a last-resort spell, as it's not exactly easy on the MP. It's nearly 100 more MP than Cure V, and at most, cures for 300-400 HP more. Though with job abilities like Penury and gear like Orison Pantaloons +2, it's less of a hassle. A lot think Red Mage, Scholar, and to an extent Paladin should have access to Cure V, and if end-game stayed in Abyssea, I would've agreed. White Mage should be the superior healer, and as is, it is that way. Sure, Dancer has Curing Waltz V, but they have an extremely unforgiving recast timer, and I know every DNC could vouch for that (it can outperform Cure V when it comes to HP cured with ideal waltz gear however, even compared to a WHM with ideal curing gear - I've seen it do almost 1300).

The merits could definitely use a revision. Honestly, defense is so meaningless in FFXI that if they made a Protectra VI spell, I'd only use it just to learn the spell, because I like having every spell. Doesn't mean it'd be useful. We all know how useful Protectra V is compared to Protectra IV... it's only a few more points of defense. Really? It won't make any difference at all. What I'd like to see, is something along the lines of the following: The entire "Protect" spell series being adjusted to become Physical Damage Taken-, just like the entire "Shell" series does for magic damage taken. During the process, since seeing tier VI buffs isn't too unlikely, they should adjust the group 2 merits for Protectra V and Shellra V to just increase efficiency of the entire series of the spells (such as -2% for level 1, up to -10% at level 5; as just an example).

As for Cursna, like I said in an earlier post, I'm inclined to think it's designed to have a low yet set chance at removing doom, not dependent on Healing Magic Skill. I'm fine with that - I like having a challenge at removing Doom. Sure, I can craft Holy/Hallowed Waters to help the cause further, but even WITH Hallowed Waters, I've still had tanks die against some mobs that inflict doom (Bukhis, I'm looking at you) even despite Hallowed Water + Cursna spam. I definitely liked the idea of mobs having Auras, as well, though I do wish some people knew more about them.

I also don't see a need for an Enmity Douse-like effect for WHM. WHM has access to massive enmity- gear, as well as an Enmity- JOB TRAIT for Healing Magic: Tranquil Heart (although yeah, RDM and SCH also have this). If a WHM's getting hate, something's wrong, or there's a hate reset factor being involved.

Overall though, I am quite happy with the White Mage job as it currently is. We have the spells that make us the preferred healer, and we can help manage our MP on our own fairly well with /SCH (Yes, I'm a /SCH fanboy - I am NOT a fan of /RDM, but hey, it's personal preference, and that will never change).

TL;DR for things I think they should do that they didn't mention as example adjustments:
- Keep WHM as the only job that can cast Cure V at will. (When I say "at will", I exclude the Puppetmaster's automaton.) Reality is, if Scholar and Red Mage gained Cure V, I feel WHMs would be less desired because we don't have as much HP outside of Abyssea to justify Cure VI use and they could get the job done similarly. (I think both SCH and RDM should get things that make them more desirable when it comes to supporting the group, enfeebles, unique buffs, etc, etc, etc). If I wanted any job to get Cure V, it'd be Paladin, but without the set VE/CE values that it currently possesses. There's a certain PLD I know who tells me all the time how he feels Cure IV is... a bit on the lacking side. It's not as effective anymore for hate gain, and it's almost solely to help keep HP up. The more HP you cure, the more hate you get, but even then, cures don't generate as much hate at higher level.
- Re-look into the effectiveness of the "Protect" line of spells, and redesign the group 2 merits should we see a sixth tier of these buffs.
- Barlightra/Bardarkra, please. At the same time, give RDM the single-target versions.
- Shorten Regen cast time. Could always introduce gear that'd lower "Regen cast time", similar to cures and healing magic. Though yeah, enhancing magic cast time- gear would work just as well, such as the sash that comes from Ogopogo.

[Ashay]

I agree that Protect should be percentage based similarly to Shell so that it'd be more effective, because an increase of 60 to defense is really minimal.

However, I can't really agree that White Mage wouldn't make good use of an ability similar to Enmity Douse. We did get Tranquil Heart, but its effect is insignificant in longer fights. If you're healing a party of six or a full alliance of people, your cumulative enmity will be capped quickly. There are few options to quickly reduce your enmity so that tanks can retain the enemy's attention, and casting in full Enmity- gear is not really likely due to Cure Potency gear and such. Unless your Thief is on top of using Collaborator or Accomplice, that's not really a great option either.

[Ahrana]

We're mostly on the same page, except for this bit:

- Keep WHM as the only job that can cast Cure V at will. (When I say "at will", I exclude the Puppetmaster's automaton.) Reality is, if Scholar and Red Mage gained Cure V, I feel WHMs would be less desired because we don't have as much HP outside of Abyssea to justify Cure VI use and they could get the job done similarly. (I think both SCH and RDM should get things that make them more desirable when it comes to supporting the group, enfeebles, unique buffs, etc, etc, etc). If I wanted any job to get Cure V, it'd be Paladin, but without the set VE/CE values that it currently possesses. There's a certain PLD I know who tells me all the time how he feels Cure IV is... a bit on the lacking side. It's not as effective anymore for hate gain, and it's almost solely to help keep HP up. The more HP you cure, the more hate you get, but even then, cures don't generate as much hate at higher level.

I think white mage being the only job that has cure V has caused a balance problem in FFXI. There's something seriously wrong when every party has to have one specific job to function, and that's currently what's happening with white mage. While part of the problem is abyssea and the huge hp pools and monster damage output, even in non-abyssea fights (such as voidwatch) most parties are constructed around white mages, and only white mages. It would be nice if at least one other job could fill the main healer role, and barring a major spell addition to another job I don't see another solution other then giving another job access to cure V.

If I could give it to one other job it would be scholar, but I would put the restriction that they could only use it under Addendum: White. That would make another job a passable healer if they specifically focused on doing it, but white mage would still be easily superior because of merits, job specific gear, and job traits.

And to put the situation in perspective, red mages and scholars are only marginally better healers then any melee/whm with a lot of +mp gear and refresh support. That doesn't seem right to me, but then again I do play white mage and scholar so maybe I'm biased.

[Bubeeky]

The problem Ahrana is that sch and rdm are so much better at MP efficiency and usage that if you gave Cure V to them, they would become instantly more popular than whm for anything outside of Aby, which is how it was @75, with whms being all but obsolete due to our horrible mp problems at that time...I'm not saying we'd encounter the exact same issues, but I just think we should keep cure V and VI a whm only thing, and help SE to continue workin' to find alternative ways that SCH could be more competant as a healer, so that they bring something unique to the table, not just the same crap whm has.

[Aleste]

My only problem with SCH getting cure V is the amount of potency they can end up with.... 38% in gear, then +60% with AF3+2 head.

[Ahrana]

I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

[Fredjan]

And to put the situation in perspective, red mages and scholars are only marginally better healers then any melee/whm with a lot of +mp gear and refresh support. That doesn't seem right to me, but then again I do play white mage and scholar so maybe I'm biased.

I play White Mage, Red Mage, and Scholar, so I know what you mean. I do understand that point of view. However, cure potency gear and whatnot is what'd make the difference compared to a melee/whm - I can reach close to 600 Cure IVs on RDM and SCH. Plus Scholar has Rapture, allowing a Cure IV to exceed 800+ with ease. If a SCH /WHM'ed for some reason (such as Haste), Divine Seal would stack on top of that if the situation called for its use. Most RDM/WHM only use Divine Seal with Convert.

I'm not completely against the Cure V thing being given to other jobs, but I do want White Mage to shine as the healer, similarly to BLM as the main nuker. Even if they had Cure V, WHM would have the (current) capped cure potency advantage + Afflatus Solace boost from AF3+2 body, but I doubt people would think of that. People didn't want WHMs at 75 because even with Cure V, having more MP is what people preferred, and that's one thing I strongly disliked when the level cap was 75. I didn't even enjoy main healing on RDM or SCH - maybe I just feel like those jobs lacked when it came to a main healer role, even at 75. But there's one thing they didn't lack on: MP efficiency (SCH, RDM has Convert+Refresh II only on a /whm use, but I tend to /SCH even on RDM unless I have to have a spell /WHM gives me when it comes to healing). In this day and age, all 3 jobs have plenty of self-support when it comes to efficiency, so it's a matter of what can do the best job healing.

I think the ideal situation is to give them more healing magic support, but not exactly Cure V just yet. After all, they have said that currently they don't have plans to do something like Cure V - but that doesn't mean they won't down the line.

Another case-in point: Summoner, like White Mage, can hit the cure potency cap (because of Facio Bliaut), so they'd cast Cure IVs (as /WHM of course, for now) even stronger than RDM and SCH (outside of Rapture). Nevermind the fact I hate healing on Summoner, it's just showing that RDM and SCH don't just lack cure potency gear to reach the cap; a job that doesn't even have a cure spell on its own without subbing a mage can reach it.

I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

I try to use the regain spell when I'm with melees. Enmity spells was an interesting thought, but I don't use those often either.

SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

They have indeed. I do recall them saying they plan to adjust Enfeebling Magic, which would definitely help RDM. As-is, a lot of things resist most enfeebles, so that needs a fix.

[Zigfreid]

Way I look at Doom... That's simply something you never blame a healer on. Dealing with Doom requires ideal preparation.

That said, Holy Waters are just as effective as Cursna when it comes to removing doom, they are just faster than relying on Cursna, especially when you have a lower number of Cursna sources. When it comes to them actually working, it's all luck. I haven't once been a believer in healing magic skill playing a factor. If it was, then why would a /whm be able to remove it just as luckily as I can? It simply doesn't affect it. I realize that wasn't a discussion already, but even despite that, it's better to find an Alchemist that can craft Hallowed Waters. Sure, it may cost slightly more, needing Fire/Ice/Light Anima, BUT they are FAR, FAR, FAR more effective than both Holy Water and Cursna, but not 100% effective. I can directly attest to this. Not many alchemists would bother getting 1 key item for 1 synth in the entire game, but I've made my fair share of hallowed waters for tanks I know.

I agree that healing doesnt really seem to effect cursna on doom, but I'd really have to disagree on the hallowed water. I bought 3 stacks to try on bukhis, sadly I went through a whole stack per doom cast. It all seems based on luck, Ive been lucky with holy water and cursna on first trys. Sadly, the cost of making hallowed is far to high for the very slight increase if at all.

[Merton9999]

I would agree that giving a non-cure V alternative to red mage and/or scholars would be preferable, but the fact is that SE has done a terrible job of adding unique job specific spells to red mage and scholar. Additionally, because of the way NM's work I don't think anything other than a large, direct heal will do the job. I know that over on the scholar forums the idea has been kicked around for a helix type healing spell, but with SE's current track record of job specific unique spells they would be underwhelming at best, and likely completely unworkable. For reference, how often do people use the hate up, down, and regain spells scholars possess?

SE has been driving to make white mage and black mage the best at what they do, and they've succeeded. The problem is that they've become so overwhelmingly good at their roles that they aren't replaceable anymore, which marginalizes the jobs that are in between them. Add on top of that SE has made many NM's immune to enfeebles, what is supposed to be the domain of red mages, and it's making the mage support role two dimensional: white and black. I don't see this as a good thing, even though I primarily play white mage as my main, and scholar as my "fun job."

This is exactly the way I look at it. I play WHM and SCH exclusively in groups anymore, mostly WHM for obvious reasons, but SCH is my favorite. I love the concept of SCH having a unique way to ensure survival as well as WHM, but am very doubtful that SE can pull this off given the last year of lemons the jobs has been stuck with. I'd rather spend the next year with boring Cure V actually using SCH than test out their healing helix and watch it suck.

I also agree with Cure V being available only through Addendum White. I don't want to keep up with WHM and BLM at the same time, I just want to fill either role adequately.

[Fredjan]

I agree that healing doesnt really seem to effect cursna on doom, but I'd really have to disagree on the hallowed water. I bought 3 stacks to try on bukhis, sadly I went through a whole stack per doom cast. It all seems based on luck, Ive been lucky with holy water and cursna on first trys. Sadly, the cost of making hallowed is far to high for the very slight increase if at all.

I have noticed the same thing. Sometimes it won't work at all, sometimes it works on the first water use, sometimes it works on the first cursna. It's hard to really come to a conclusion about it, given what it's based off of. I just go by what I'm told.