Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Byrth]

Or SCHs getting Tier 5s and nuking for more than BLMs? Or Samurais doing better Namas Arrows than Rangers? Or Samurais using Polearms better than Dragoons (at 75)? SE hasn't been incredibly consistent with game mechanics, but at least you guys are being outclassed by another job whose primary weapon is dagger.

As for the rest of it, I wrote a wall of text here and I don't feel like rehashing it. xD

[Insaniac]

Or SCHs getting Tier 5s and nuking for more than BLMs? Or Samurais doing better Namas Arrows than Rangers? Or Samurais using Polearms better than Dragoons (at 75)? SE hasn't been incredibly consistent with game mechanics, but at least you guys are being outclassed by another job whose primary weapon is dagger.

As for the rest of it, I wrote a wall of text here and I don't feel like rehashing it. xD

I'll admit I'm no SCH expert and I know they can put out big nukes but they aren't outclassing BLM in the over all nuking game. If I cared about BLM I might look into it more and complain about it if it was a problem.

Don't have much experience with this either but I did have a few colibri parties with Yoichi SAMs and they were nothing special and SAM never threatened to be better at the overall ranged damage game.

SAM -> DRG with polearm was a myth. I parsed my DRG against dozens and dozens of SAMs and none of them ever came anywhere close to beating me. The only way that would be possible is if I listened to people when they asked me to /nin on DRG.

[Laphine]

I liked your idea on TH a lot. For sure, if TH wasn't so passive and luck based, things would be very different. Currently, simply being the TH guy is just not fun. So we need to hold onto something most players define as fun, and that's dealing damage. And this is probably where some give up on THF and look for fun on another job. Good for them i say. But others (myself included) are still here, waiting for fun to be added to our table, be it something obvious as moar DD power, or something innovative (and useful - we have enough of nearly useless abilities).

[Alaik]

THF was an underrated job 8 years ago because no one knew how to play/gear it. As I already said, at the 75 cap, a good THF could hold their own and enmity control still had it's uses. Now we just keep sliding further and further down the totem pole.

We must have played 2 different games. Back before the dagger damage upgrade hitting 0 on exp mobs was extremely common. No other jobs had that problem. And back then I was still a good geared THF. SH when it was hard as fuck, etc. THF has NEVER been considered a great job. We had a brief period where we were desired 30-60, but guess what? 60 comes around and suddenly all those /THF whipped us. From WARs, to MNKs to DRKs.

[Byrth]

I liked your idea on TH a lot. For sure, if TH wasn't so passive and luck based, things would be very different. Currently, simply being the TH guy is just not fun. So we need to hold onto something most players define as fun, and that's dealing damage. And this is probably where some give up on THF and look for fun on another job. Good for them i say. But others (myself included) are still here, waiting for fun to be added to our table, be it something obvious as moar DD power, or something innovative (and useful - we have enough of nearly useless abilities).

Thanks! Haha.

It would force parties to do something other than pull, have their THF/BLM mule cast Sleepga, and kill to maximize their drop rate. If it had been this way since the beginning of the game, player equipment would minorly indicate something other than amount of time spent playing. Splitting SA and TA and using them as often as possible would become a strategic thing to maximize TH on monsters. SATA->WS would be reserved for big baddies that everyone wants drops from. It would change the way we play the game and our strategic approach to events. Good Thieves would be valued, while bad Thieves would be mocked.

Apart from the gameplay improvements, it would make daggers like Twashtar, Vajra, and Mandau indirectly add TH through added WS damage. Also, the alleged players that insist on TK Main-hand still (I've never met one) would be forced to shove off.

Here's the kicker:
It really wouldn't be difficult to implement. They have all the raw parts of the system right there in the game already. It's just an extension of their current TH system.

Potential criticisms:
It would make the some events very Thief-centric. However, if SE is honest about the "THF=Treasure Hunter" views that seems to permeate all of their updates to the job, then forcing people to bring along a Treasure Hunter when they're Hunting Treasure isn't really that out of line. Thief is one of the original 6 jobs, after all.

And it isn't like it excludes other jobs. You know the saying... It takes three to SATA! Oh ho ho, I should be put in jail for my bad jokes.

[Lokithor]

The thing that SE doesn't realize is that EVERY melee job wants to do good damage. In order to keep the melee classes happy, you need them to have parity for their damage capability FIRST and then differentiate with other abilities.

[Karbuncle]

I'm so disappointed in the player base across all jobs. All post ever say no matter what job is "...I WANT MORE DAMAGE". I know I'm preaching to the deaf, blind, and dumb but here goes anyway... If you want straight damage play Warrior or black mages any other jobs combines elements of party dynamic with job abilities.

We don't want to do epic damage, We want our damage not to be mediocre to the point of pointlessness. We're not asking for some godly Buff, We're asking to be ACCEPTABLE DD. Voidwatch is the only out-side Abyssea content i can think of besides KCNMs, so using that as an example, THF's damage on Voidwatch mobs is exceptionally worthless. To the poin their 1 and only use is TH whore.

Bonus: Their TH isn't really even worth it either, You can do everything they can do with TH just by simply capping your spectral alignment, Because from what i gather, TH bonuses dont take it over the cap. yay

Its not a sin to want our job to be able to melee effectively, and not having to default to gimmick crap either no one wants (Enmity "control"), or Treasure Hunter.

Now as far as the SE post...
We don't know the kind of "numbers" SE is talking about. Intimidation via party member, while sounds like "Killer Effects" might actually raise the cap of what, 8%? If each member were to say give 5% towards the "intimidation", then a thief could end up having a 25% "killer effect". If you can't see that this will help in "thief tanking" well, you blind and dumb.

What good is killer Effects if you aren't tanking? This would only be slightly useful in Abyssea, While thats wonderful, Our problems don't really exist there. There is absolutely no point to giving us an intimidation effect when we wouldn't be tanking (I.E Any "party" scenario). While i admit it would have very situational uses, We don't need more incredibly limited and situational Abilities.

I like that you're trying to look at this in the positive, I however cannot ignore your insults about us being dumb/deaf/blind to anything throughout your posts so you have to forgive me if it feels like i'm cutting the niceties for you.

The "warrior crit", we don't know the timer, nor the bonus %. A 5min timer one a single attack or weapsonskill is hardly going to steal a thief's role. If a 1min timer then yes, we can scream foul.

Its true, We know little about it, however it still does not ease the pain that SE is siphoning off what used to be signature THF traits. Triple Attack to DNC (As byrth explained will likely be useless though), A "Trick attack" Sounding ability to RNG, and a Forced-Crit (SA/TA) Ability to WAR.

While i have 1/3 of the above jobs leveled, and am happy for an update, I Think we're allowed to be a bit P.O'd they have yet again refused to give THF any meaningful reason to be active during combat. upgrading TH at a 0.00003% Chance per melee swing is not enough, especially when that chance is being given through the damages of 1-15 dmg a hit (I'm estimating here, haven't done much voidwatch on THF......... I wonder why?)

People say, the whole enimity thing is broken and can't compete with damagers. Well if you combine the new thief's enimty skill, whatever it is with the new paladin enimty "constant"(lowered enimty decay), depending on the "numbers" this could keep Paladins much higher on the enimty list. Once again, we need to know by a factor of what?

Well, The only real problem i have with the Enmity cap is that its too low. Plus, Collaborator is on a 1 minute timer, and it only effects 1 Person per 5 in your party (not including you), If you're in an alliance its 1/5 for 17 because you cant even use it on Alliance members. Its party only.

Unless we wanna bring a THF to every party for Collaborator Rotations? That sounds quite silly even to you doesn't it... FFXI isn't played that way. Good players know how to control their Enmity when its needed, a THF is not required, Not to mention draining 25% of a persons Enmity every minute will eventually add up to the point the THF will have hate.

*GASP* a reason for the Intimidation JA?!? Shame the THF would be dead or already losing hate in a matter of milliseconds considering they wouldn't even be able to hit the Enemy for more than 10-20dmg (or lower) a swing.

1/Treasure Hunter trait actually lowering recast timers on all "steal" moves by a factor of X%.

Not a bad idea.

2/Treasure Hunter "Sekkeanoi" or whatever its called, allowing failed steal to have chance at immediate recast.

Hmmm, Not sure.

3/I don't agree that aurasteal be a "separate" /JA. However, expanding it into other /JA could be fun. To include mug and SATA.

Do... Do you have THF leveled? This i disagree with completely. Aura Steal is a great part of THF, solo or in groups. I think what really needs to happen is to lower Steal to a 1 minute timer. Its not that broken to the point its going to cause the Economy to crash at this point.

and we need to separate Steal/Despoil timers, it was a bad idea to begin with, We're level 90, Is 2 steals really so broken?

Mug needs to be significantly reduced as well, Possibly under 5 minutes. I Do agree adding Aura Steal to mug would be very acceptable.

4/ on Despoil, this move similar to a mob move should un-equip mobs. With higher tiers of TH, more equip. This translate to a armor down effect of X% per "piece of mob armor".

lower a mobs DEF% Per Despoil? I kinda like the Idea, But i also liked the Idea of Despoil inflicting Ailments based off whats stolen.

(I.E If people haven't noticed. A Despoil effect is linked to the item stolen. IF you steal a Buffalo hide from a Buffalo, it will always inflict Evasion down, If you steal a Meat, Its always Slow, and so on)

Would this be a side effect or a 100% thing? How long would it last? etc. The idea is pretty decent but i like despoil how it is now.

I just wish they'd make Despoil/Steal work on NMs, you know SE, Endgame content?. That way its not useless.

Edit: And in case people have seem to have forgotten, I'm aware none of these changes are set in stone. stop bringing it up, It doesn't change the fact their "Job direction" For THF seems to be focused entirely on being a Loot-whore and a Enmity Controller, TH Whore, I'm okay with, it is the only positive to the job, an Enmity controller, While i could accept this, They would need to fix THF's damage first.

More Edits below, spoilered

I just want to be able to fight a mob and not feel like I'm 20 levels below everyone else struggling to do 10% of their damage.

The thing that SE doesn't realize is that EVERY melee job wants to do good damage. In order to keep the melee classes happy, you need them to have parity for their damage capability FIRST and then differentiate with other abilities.

also this.

Or SCHs getting Tier 5s and nuking for more than BLMs? Or Samurais doing better Namas Arrows than Rangers? Or Samurais using Polearms better than Dragoons (at 75)? SE hasn't been incredibly consistent with game mechanics, but at least you guys are being outclassed by another job whose primary weapon is dagger.

As for the rest of it, I wrote a wall of text here and I don't feel like rehashing it. xD

I read it and I'm sad to see you say we shouldn't QQ about being terrible DDs -.-

I thought you would understand more than anyone that THF is a terribly gimped DD right now, and while TH is the 1 inflated life-raft of the job keeping us from drowning, we need more stability, and us being able to compitently deal damage would help a lot.

I just don't think Enmity control is the right direction unless its so severe you could literally keep 1 person tanking the entire fight with a single THF.

Edit: and you more or less hit the nail on the head, The sad thing is, I'm tired of Treasure Hunter being an excuse to keep us mediocre, I'm not saying in order to buff THF you have to stop buffing DNC, You can do both at the same time.

No where in my nerd-rage do i suggest no other jobs need improvements (I Suggest im a little peeved other jobs appear to be gaining what used to be THF abilities, but i'll get over it). I just feel THF does need a DD Improvement. I'm tired of us remaining so gimp in melee even the best geared THF will barely beat out a Scrub DD in any real endgame content (Voidwatch for now).

TH Is not an excuse to condemn the job to mediocrity. I think if anything, a lot of jobs still need tweaks, I just feel THF is one of those jobs.

Placebo Hunter is a glorious trait, But its not so great that it should be the nail in the coffin that condemns THF to be mediocre it every other possible aspect. A Small upgrade to our damage would not break the job, or the game. Giving us a real fighting chance at competently adding to our parties damage is all i want.

[Laphine]

I just wish they'd make Despoil/Steal work on NMs, you know SE, Endgame content?. That way its not useless.

So true...i think if it worked on nms we wouldn't laugh so much at this JA. Most times i don't even use steal/aura steal on nms, so the shared timing would be hardly an issue. But yeah, nms, (Yes, please.).

[Karbuncle]

So true...i think if it worked on nms we wouldn't laugh so much at this JA. Most times i don't even use steal/aura steal on nms, so the shared timing would be hardly an issue. But yeah, nms, (Yes, please.).

Yah, Thats one of my biggest peeves with Steal/Despoil, is its inability to work on NMs (only place i can think that breaks this is Dynamis).

I just think it wouldn't be game breaking to add Despoil pools to NMs, so we can inflict something other than an Exp mob with ailments :|

[Laphine]

oh despoil works on dyna? never even bothered lol