Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Karbuncle]

Yah, I don't know if I'm being unclear but i agree it would help the job very much. If anything it would give us a solid role/reason to melee and WS and bring only the better/best of THFs

[Byrth]

Yeah sorry, I started critiquing the system before I read your post. I editted in other comments above.

[Insaniac]

It's unfounded because your job is doing exactly what it's intended to do and is still highly desired. Instead of requesting that SE make you another job by giving you generic damage boosts, it would be better to ask for something that enhances the role you already has and makes it more fun to play.

Here it is again:


Currently, TH is thought to work like this:
* Treasure Hunter gives you one reroll if a "drop slot" fails to fill itself the first time.
* Treasure Hunter II gives you another reroll if a "drop slot" fails to fill itself after the first two rolls.
* Treasure Hunter III gives you a third reroll if a "drop slot" fail to fill itself after the first three rolls.
* "Treasure Hunter +1" or "Treasure Hunter level 1" is theoretically +1% drop rate, although I doubt that's actually how it works. It seems more likely to me that it's +1% drop rate on the final re-roll, but that's another issue. There have been a few people claiming to discover what it does, but statistics say otherwise.

My system would just have that continue. So if you managed to get "TH Level 4" in my system, it would give you a fourth re-roll. Most significant NMs have very high HP, so you'd be going off the Defense markers for them. 6*500 Defense would be 3000 damage, so if you can do 3000 damage to the NM then you could get a fourth re-roll. Do you think the average THF mule is going to pull off a 3k WS on a hard NM even in Abyssea? Not very likely. Could a Twashtar, Mandau, or Vajra THF pull off a 3k WS on damned near anything in Abyssea? Yeah, and they could potentially do a 4200 damage WS for a fifth re-roll. Move over Thief's knife, relics/mythics/empyreans are suddenly better.

What's that? You want me to line up for SATA so you can get an extra TH re-roll and we can get more drops? Pull together the troops boys, we're SATAing as a party for the first time since 2004.

On normal monsters, you could pull an 800 damage SA for 96% HP damage and get level 9001 TH for full drops. Oh my! How broken! A Thief that reliably hunts treasure against TW monsters!!!... As your level goes up relative to the monster, the TH tier that you can easily reach also increases. Is it really unreasonable that old content should get high drop rates the more outdated it is?

I've said this before. Your idea is coming from the right place but it's not perfect. You might get people to line up once or twice but then it's back to "Ok now gtfo while we kill this." Keeping THF really involved in a fight that they aren't tanking is gonna take more than this.

Yes, I want a damage boost. I don't care if I'm still the lowest DD damage in the alliance. I just want the gap narrowed back to what it used to be. Beyond that I want active utility beyond TH for the simply reason that TH is a boring thing to do. SE seems halfway on board with the idea. I mean.. they gave us collaborator when it actually did something. Now they need to continue building our job like they have done for every other job since the level increase. EVERY SINGLE OTHER JOB IN THIS GAME has grown in some way since 75. New spells, new pets, new useful JAs, improvements to existing JAS. THF has gotten a couple little things but they are scraps compared to most of the stuff other jobs have gotten. That's where my disappointment comes from.

[Karbuncle]

And yeah, things like Ni scrolls would drop off dramatically as they become farmable. On one hand, poor Ni scroll farmers ; ;. On the other hand, is it really reasonable that level 40 Ninja spells and level 50-60 Black Mage spells cost hundreds of thousands of gil? Why is that not already cheap?

While i do agree you need to consider both sides of the argument, I think these spells were meant to be difficult to obtain, hence very low drop rates or from NMs only or BCNM/ISNM.

Crashing the market in them would probably impact a lot more than you suspect. Every farmable item from lower level mobs would likely be flooded, this would cause a lot of things to crash, and while cheaper things are good as a whole, it also makes it a lot harder to farm gil in the game.

Imagine also Anima's, used from Memories, if you could go on THF and 1-shot all the Ice-Elemental mobs and get Somber Memories/etc the expensive ones, The prices on those would likely crash in no time, causing Animas to crash and as such certain charged items (Reraise Earrings/Hairpins/etc).

And like i said, While its nice to have things cheaper, It would make it really hard to farm gil outside of as you suggest Cruor farming, because the markets would likely crash if things became such sure-shot drops.

Again though, I love the idea, this would have to be addressed in some way though... Brainstorm?

[Laphine]

Byrth put a solution on his previous post. A TH cap. Simple and direct lol.

I've said this before. Your idea is coming from the right place but it's not perfect. You might get people to line up once or twice but then it's back to "Ok now gtfo while we kill this." Keeping THF really involved in a fight that they aren't tanking is gonna take more than this.

The way i see it, unless ppl know for sure that the THF did the best damage he could do, they would always give more opotunities to achieve higher. Because higher = more drops. And everyone wants shineys.

[Karbuncle]

Byrth put a solution on his previous post. A TH cap. Simple and direct lol.

Must have read over that, i see it now.

[Byrth]

If you felt like it, you could cap the HP% version as shown below, or cap the overall TH tier possible based on monster level. This way EP/TW trash farming monsters would hardly be affected, but it would be possible to get higher levels of TH on NMs. It would change it to be this:

Level 1 +(p-1)*p) : Thief is on the hate list
Level 2 +(p-1)^2*p) : Do >20% HP damage in a single action or >2*Monster DEF, whichever is lower
Level 3 +(p-1)^3*p) : Do >40% HP damage in a single action or > 4*Monster DEF, whichever is lower
Level 4 +(p-1)^4*p) : Do >6*Monster DEF, whichever is lower
Level 5 +(p-1)^5*p) : Do >8*Monster DEF, whichever is lower
Level 6 +(p-1)^6*p) : Do >10*Monster DEF, whichever is lower
Level 7 +(p-1)^7*p) : Do >12*Monster DEF, whichever is lower

[Insaniac]

Byrth put a solution on his previous post. A TH cap. Simple and direct lol.


The way i see it, unless ppl know for sure that the THF did the best damage he could do, they would always give more opotunities to achieve higher. Because higher = more drops. And everyone wants shineys.

I really don't see it happening. I see it going from "Did you put TH on it? Ok kill it." to "Did you ACSATA WS yet? Ok kill it." On top of that the effects would have to be DRAMATIC for people to care that much and we all know SE wouldn't be willing to go as far as Byrth goes with his calculations. I don't even think the system change itself is something they would be willing to put the effort into.

[Byrth]

People bring Thieves to events for a single extra TH roll (TH3 vs. TH2). I think they'd definitely try and abuse the new system as much as possible if they thought it could get them more TH rolls. That said, the benefits of adding rolls decreases the more you add. I think it sums to be:
New Drop Rate = (1 - Original Drop Rate)^(TH Level+1)

A 10% drop rate doesn't become a 50% drop rate until you hit TH Level 6, and it's already about a 35% drop rate with TH Level 3.

Point is, most people don't understand how TH works, statistics, math, etc. and this would be an eyeballable increase on some things. They'd definitely play ball.

[Karbuncle]

I wish I knew people as smart as you Byrth.

The friends i play with generally get what you do, Wish there was a real solid answer/tests on TH.. but you'd need such large sample sizes... even then it wouldn't be 100% conclusive as to determine if its a % drop or re-roll like you claim.