Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Nala]

this may be a silly question but wasn't there a developer change out in the last few years? reason i ask (partly cause i cant remember, i've been here again gone again last few years due to my job) is it seems as if the dev team doesn't seem to understand the mechanics behind the game.

making statements about steal/hide being overpowered when the items that originally caused that line of thought have lost considerable value not to mention that its a strategy that only works on a very small portion of monsters AND you have to kill it afterwards to ensure you can steal again, they also have failed to add more/new items to steal to relevant content.

also various comments from the dev team on other jobs and their issues such as pup, it may just be that we play the damn game and have a better understanding of the fundamental issues however such comments seem totally uniformed...

considering they want to adjust the way we play our job they ought to be as familiar with the jobs they are adjusting, probably too much to ask but basically the dev's ought to "walk a mile in our shoes." That goes for every job though.

[Babekeke]

basically the dev's ought to "walk a mile in our shoes."

Reminds me of a good saying I once saw:

"Before criticising someone you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes"

[Lovehatehero]

Thf's will never be top DD's, get over it. An already well geared, smart thf can already out DD most(non-emp) jobs in abyssea, and can keep up well outside( even at 75 i was still parsing well against sam's & wars...well at xp mobs XD). In the sense of endgame, thf will ALWAYS hold the TH whore role, spike damage through SA&TA, and lolhate control. Thf was never made to do more to NMs than the other DD's. A lot of you people just want YOUR job to be the best job at everything. Get real. Want to do massive damage? GO lvl war get a ukon. Want to tank? Level Nin, or Pld? lol. You want a veristile job that can DD well( not the best, but well) tank moderately well( great in abyssea), and provide a lil bonus to your loot pool? There's thf. Yes the dev's Vision of how they see the job, imo, is a little off. Steal fixes/tweaks this late in the game, honestly, are just a waist of the Devs time to figure out. And our time to even listen to. But it is what it is. You can cry "omg war get forced crit ; ; or omg dnc get triple att( though I really dont like this, one thing that seemed to ALWAYS set thf apart.) But thf, how it is( except maybe a tweak to the TH proc/usefulness of higher TH procs) is pretty damn good how it is. Honestly, it just seems like a lot of the player base just wants all jobs( ie Their MAIN job) to be able to rape everything solo and call it day. Get real.

[Karbuncle]

Thf's will never be top DD's, get over it.

No one has ever in this entire thread asked that.

An already well geared, smart thf can already out DD most(non-emp) jobs in abyssea

We all know that, no one has ever disputed this. Abyssea ends.

and can keep up well outside( even at 75 i was still parsing well against sam's & wars...well at xp mobs XD).

well, Exp mobs are generally trash. Its endgame HNM level content where THF failed.

In the sense of endgame, thf will ALWAYS hold the TH whore role spike damage through SA&TA, and lolhate control.

Is it sad that unless we have a Relic/Empyrean, our Spike Damage through SATA is generally lower than another jobs WS? Back at 75 it was like this too for some jobs. Always felt if THF was going to have just 1 thing, It'd be highest spike damage. We dont even own that right anymore..

Thf was never made to do more to NMs than the other DD's. A lot of you people just want YOUR job to be the best job at everything. Get real.

See my first point. Did you even read the thread? no one in this entire thread has asked for THF to be the best DD. Ever. In fact most of us have simply asked for small updates like Dual Wield IV and Subtle Blow.

Dual Wield ~III/IV would allow us to /WAR for DD situations and help our DPS considerably over /NIN.

Want to do massive damage? GO lvl war get a ukon.

We dont want to do massive damage.

Want to tank? Level Nin, or Pld?

We dont want to tank.

lol. You want a veristile job that can DD well( not the best, but well) tank moderately well( great in abyssea), and provide a lil bonus to your loot pool? There's thf.

THF is far from Versitile, In any endgame content, most THFs in good LS are demoted to at this point, "Use SA and TA to try and upgrade TH, don't feed the mob TP, go away" TH whores. They don't tank moderately well at all on anything tough like Voidwatch or real content.

As many of us have already Admitted, Treasure Hunter is our one redeeming quality, and its a very very good ability, We just want more activity during a battle. Waiting for our SA/TA Timers to come up is not fun. (Note: We know some other jobs might have it worse off, Whos to say they can't get updates too? No one)

Really, I'm not even so much concerned with damage anymore, if SE is hellbent on keeping us Utility, I just want some GOOD utility. I noticed Bay going in threads responding to a lot of "i wants" etc, Maybe he'll come here and tell me if he took my Steal/despoil/Mug JA/JT suggestions i posted and what responses they got, I'd really like to know :X

Yes the dev's Vision of how they see the job, imo, is a little off. Steal fixes/tweaks this late in the game, honestly, are just a waist of the Devs time to figure out.

Whats every worse about this is they actually said Aura steal/Steal were too powerful to adjust. Because apparently they think Steal > hide still works on mobs.

But it is what it is. You can cry "omg war get forced crit ; ; or omg dnc get triple att But thf, how it is, is pretty damn good how it is. Honestly, it just seems like a lot of the player base just wants all jobs( ie Their MAIN job) to be able to rape everything solo and call it day. Get real.

Again, no sarcasm, Did you even read the thread? not a single suggestion in this entire thread is remotely related to what you're talking about.

Yes, we're PO'd WAR may get a Forced-Crit ability, But we don't know recast/etc, So most people have moved on

On DNC's "Triple attack ability", If its a Flourish it'll be useless because (I'm going off Byrth here) They won't stack with other Flourish and Building/Climatic(I forget which?) are better by miles.

On the last part, We dont want our job to be super, seriously, Does anyone read before posting. We just want our job to be better. THF is not "okay", Our jobs only marketable skill is TH. We're not good or "good enough" DDs, Most groups degrade a THF to a TH mule (A.K.A Someones mule with TH Gear) who do nothing but hit the mob then afk, Or degrade them to out-side party, getting invited in the last % to TH the mob, Or (More relevant today) Use SA/TA > hit the mob > go away and stop feeding TP.

On Abyssea and Weak-sh*t content we're a Bit better off, Its the much harder end-game content that worries me. Yes, 1 THF will always have a place in the alliance, But that THF with any good LS will likely be a Nakid Mule with a Knife, a pair of Gloves, and some Boots, and i won't be allowed to come THF because we already have a TH whore.

Look, I'm not even asking for DD buffs anymore, I just want our jobs Vision (Enmity control) to be worthwhile. I really want the Dev team to think out what they're doing to THF and what it means for a party situation. I really hope they're in touch with THF on this one.

And i want that vision to be based off skill/Gear (Hint: Right now our Worth is based off a Knife, Gloves, and Boots), Otherwise without a doubt a TH mule will arise in most Linkshells, and I'll be locked out my favorite job unless i want to join another LS.

[Zirael]

Honestly though, this is nothing new.
Until Cammate posted here, there was no indication that the community team reads (or cares) about the job forums at all.

Edit: Although it looks like they are trying to kill FFXI off with all this retarded billing changes as well. That might just be the last nail in the coffin for me. I'm not going through all this hastle for "Aurasteal is overpowered."

Regarding jobs no one cares about, SCH responses were appended to general discussion, because dedicated SCH manifesto topic got missed (=haven't been spotted/read at all up until now). At least THF replies were posted in the job forums, so we're not the total bottom feeders yet.

Also, regarding Aura Steal being too overpowered, I've just remembered this:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sagasinger
Too good for THF (and BLU, but that's another story).

[Laphine]

Steal fixes/tweaks this late in the game, honestly, are just a waist of the Devs time to figure out

Really? Steal if the very foundation of the job. When i think of THF, i think steal. Without it, why would we even be called thieves anyway? Of course they should fix steal. If they don't want THF to be a DD, steal IS the way to go. For me, it certainly is the easiest path give us utility.

[Nala]

You have not been playing the game the last 4 years then have you? steal serves no purpose, if they think aura steal is overpowered there is no way any adjustment planned for steal will be any more worthwhile then the latest JA's we've gotten.

As far as wanting my favorite job to be the "best" i am a bard, i am a samurai, i am a thief, i am a black mage and i am a ninja, i enjoy most of these jobs (save maybe bard... too tedious...), if anything i'd say my samurai is by far my favorite over thief.

Quit assuming that every one is just QQing because we want to be OMGWTFBBQTOPTIERROFLWAFFLE. freaking sick of your (being all the omg thf QQ'ers) antagonistic no brainer retorts coming in the middle of this without reading whats being said. Half the counter points that your group keep's spouting show a fundamental lack of either being a career thief or even a general understanding of what ails the damn job (or perhaps a lack of understanding of anything . ).

honestly most of us have been in reserve with offering specific adjustments, at the most there have been requests for higher tiers of DW and subtle blow, if we could at least get SB that would put to rest a majority of the issue with those of us who'd rather DD, though wouldn't be the sole solution.

[Insaniac]

Thf's will never be top DD's, get over it. An already well geared, smart thf can already out DD most(non-emp) jobs in abyssea, and can keep up well outside( even at 75 i was still parsing well against sam's & wars...well at xp mobs XD). In the sense of endgame, thf will ALWAYS hold the TH whore role, spike damage through SA&TA, and lolhate control. Thf was never made to do more to NMs than the other DD's. A lot of you people just want YOUR job to be the best job at everything. Get real. Want to do massive damage? GO lvl war get a ukon. Want to tank? Level Nin, or Pld? lol. You want a veristile job that can DD well( not the best, but well) tank moderately well( great in abyssea), and provide a lil bonus to your loot pool? There's thf. Yes the dev's Vision of how they see the job, imo, is a little off. Steal fixes/tweaks this late in the game, honestly, are just a waist of the Devs time to figure out. And our time to even listen to. But it is what it is. You can cry "omg war get forced crit ; ; or omg dnc get triple att( though I really dont like this, one thing that seemed to ALWAYS set thf apart.) But thf, how it is( except maybe a tweak to the TH proc/usefulness of higher TH procs) is pretty damn good how it is. Honestly, it just seems like a lot of the player base just wants all jobs( ie Their MAIN job) to be able to rape everything solo and call it day. Get real.

You couldn't have read a single post here. If you would have looked at any one of the 31 pages in this thread before you posted you would have realized how silly it would make you look.

[Babekeke]

Anyone read the comments on RNG updates thread?

We currently have no plans of adding an ability that resets hate for ranger. We suggest forming a party with a job that can control hate, such as thief, to get around this issue.

Because Sidewinder>barrage>sidewinder (or other WS, I'm not too familiar with RNG WS anymore) followed by Collaborator will make it so easy for the NIN to hold hate for the rest of the fight, even if you're not fighting mobs where hate is @ cap almost immediately.

How far off the mark the Devs really are... astounds me.

[Nebo]

Anyone read the comments on RNG updates thread?



Because Sidewinder>barrage>sidewinder (or other WS, I'm not too familiar with RNG WS anymore) followed by Collaborator will make it so easy for the NIN to hold hate for the rest of the fight, even if you're not fighting mobs where hate is @ cap almost immediately.

How far off the mark the Devs really are... astounds me.

LOL. You beat me too it!!! But I responded there.

I really can't believe they actually think this. I know we all joke about it, but it would appear that they REALLY do not have a clue about THF abilities or gameplay.