Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Karbuncle]

Past games aside, console based Single Player RPGs often play differently than MMOs :| If our job was good for nothing but stealing items and mugging it would be completely useless outside of fun little RP gimmicks.

TH is the only thing keeping us afloat. While i definitely would not discount any more THF-RP-like elements to the job, I don't think it should be the only thing we're good at.

I'm asking for a little versatility, in the DD department, as well as unique things. Theres no reason a job can't have both...

[Draylo]

THF does have versatility in that department. It is a mediocre DD at best outside of Abyssea, just like it should be. How are those things nothing but "little RP gimmicks"? They enhance everything the party would want, more loot and gil. I hope you aren't asking THF becomes a top tier DD, that is a little ambitious considering the amount of DD already in the game that are made for that role. Why not ask for something else?

[Karbuncle]

THF does have versatility in that department. It is a mediocre DD at best outside of Abyssea, just like it should be. How are those things nothing but "little RP gimmicks"? They enhance everything the party would want, more loot and gil. I hope you aren't asking THF becomes a top tier DD, that is a little ambitious considering the amount of DD already in the game that are made for that role. Why not ask for something else?

Are you trolling Draylo? I know you're not that daft. THF are great as Treasure Hunters, I've admitted this pages back. My only want is to be worth more than TH.

Take BLU, for example. You can DD fine, You can tank to some good extent, You can Cure well ,and you can buff nicely, you cover a lot of different aspects. THF? We're good for Treasure hunter. Nothing else, at all. My only want is for us to be good for things that TH isn't helping us on.

KCNMs, Voidwatch, BCNMs, any Battle-field event really... On Voidwatch as, TH doesnt raise lights above cap so it doesn't do anything you can't do without a THF. Which is sad. I expect more Voidwatch Content and as such THF would be rather pointless to bring to that.

On the bold, If you read the thread or any of my 1000 posts on this subject you know thats not even remotely what i want. right now our DD is mediocre, I want it to be a little above mediocre. Small buffs like say

Triple Attack II (10%) over our normal Base 5%
Dual Wield III~IV (same level as DNC)

Small things like that. Simple boosts to our overall DPS. I don't care what the job was in past Final Fantasy, In past Final Fantasy's Summoners were god-tier, RDMs Meleed, and WHM's shot bows. It doesn't matter what happened in past FF and its the worst argument on the board.

What matters if FFXI, and as such, I'm concerned that THF as a job is condemned to mediocrity simply because players who feel the job should remain garbage because it has TH.

I'm not asking us to out DD WARs, I'm asking for a small boost in the DD department, So when we're invited to TH whore a mob, We can actually contribute a bit more meaningful damage to the battle

Edit: For fairness sake, I'd take some meaningful buff in a support role too. Maybe Traits that hinder the enemy, Rather it be a JA that inflicts the Target with specific Ailments thats not linked to a 10% chance proc, Not working on NMs, and a 5-minute timer, or something that sets the enemy up to be more vulnerable to future attacks.

maybe a JA that increases the damage the enemies takes for a short period? Or an Ability that enhances the potency of Debuffs landed on the enemy after striking it. Something that aids a group like that i would take.

[Nynja]

THF does have versatility in that department. It is a mediocre DD at best outside of Abyssea, just like it should be. How are those things nothing but "little RP gimmicks"? They enhance everything the party would want, more loot and gil. I hope you aren't asking THF becomes a top tier DD, that is a little ambitious considering the amount of DD already in the game that are made for that role. Why not ask for something else?

Except TH is losing its necessity...
Abyssea: !! trigger is slightly more important than TH, as grellow opens extra slots for drops and blue!! greatly enhances certain drops (though you'll still want TH...but I've 3box plenty of seal NM's finishing sets without grellow and TH7 and got 0/2 seals, then changed setup and killed with grellow and got plenty of 3-4/4 drops, sooooo)
Voidwatch: dont really do it, but from what I'm hearing, TH is a joke, its USELESS.

[Karbuncle]

In Voidwatch TH only ups your lights a small amount, Doesn't raise it beyond the cap or anything.

At best its just lets you hit light cap a teensy bit quicker :|

[Draylo]

Which is why I suggested they added more utility to the job. You think adding more DD is going to make people wanna take THF over MNK or WAR or some other better DD for an event where TH isn't needed? I highly doubt that.

@Karbuncle, No I'm not trolling, and I'm not being daft either. I was asking a question, not stating something. If you aren't advocating for THF to be top tier DD then good, if so, get your head out of the clouds. THF only doing one thing? Hello, have you met White Mage, Bard, Black Mage?

I never said THF should remain mediocre (this is a bad statement too, THF is extremely important in this game. I use it for almost EVERYTHING due to increase drop rates which lowers the amount of time you spend doing X thing.) They should be given more utility, yes they can upgrade damage but that shouldn't be a primary focus as it seems you want it to be. If you wanna play a DD job go job change to WAR.

[Karbuncle]

Which is why I suggested they added more utility to the job. You think adding more DD is going to make people wanna take THF over MNK or WAR or some other better DD for an event where TH isn't needed? I highly doubt that.

I don't want the Useless kind of Utility is all. a DD improvement and some unique aspects to the job? I could accept either/or.

Secondly, No I don't think they'd invite THF for DD, You don't get it... Thats probably my fault for not spelling it out enough. I'm saying that this tiny DD boost will make us replace a SAM or WAR, Duh, Thats not what i want.

I want, that when Invited to TH whore a mob, That i can at least pull off acceptable numbers that its worth meleeing the mob. Right now its really not, the only reason a THF DDs now is because they cant do anything else. I just want our DD to be a little better so its not so pitiful.

I don't expect to replace a DD, i want to improve damage a bit so when i am invited for TH, i can at least contribute to the party in more than just that 1 way. contribute well.

@Karbuncle, No I'm not trolling, and I'm not being daft either. I was asking a question, not stating something. If you aren't advocating for THF to be top tier DD then good, if so, get your head out of the clouds. THF only doing one thing? Hello, have you met White Mage, Bard, Black Mage?

Try reading the thread before posting then? No i dont want THF to be a top tier DD. I'm sorry if i gave that impression.

On 1-thing jobs

WHM - Cure and Buffing both well.
BLM - Enfeebling and Nuking
BRD - you got me there, All they do is sing.

I never said THF should remain mediocre (this is a bad statement too, THF is extremely important in this game. I use it for almost EVERYTHING due to increase drop rates which lowers the amount of time you spend doing X thing.) They should be given more utility, yes they can upgrade damage but that shouldn't be a primary focus as it seems you want it to be. If you wanna play a DD job go job change to WAR.

If you read my Edit, I said I'd take utility gain. As long as its not worthless utilities like Enmity control like their "Vision". no one has invited or needed a THF for Enmity control since i started this game in early 2004.

[Draylo]

I don't want the Useless kind of Utility is all. a DD improvement and some unique aspects to the job? I could accept either/or.

I agree, but how are additional steals for more loot/gil useless utility?

Secondly, No I don't think they'd invite THF for DD, You don't get it... Thats probably my fault for not spelling it out enough. I'm saying that this tiny DD boost will make us replace a SAM or WAR, Duh, Thats not what i want.

I want, that when Invited to TH whore a mob, That i can at least pull off acceptable numbers that its worth meleeing the mob. Right now its really not, the only reason a THF DDs now is because they cant do anything else. I just want our DD to be a little better so its not so pitiful.

Um, what about THF DD is "pitiful" atm? I assume you are referring to Voidwatch? Otherwise I hope this is a joke in regards to old content(which THF DD'd just fine on at 75 cap aside from few high end NMs) and Abyssea.

I don't expect to replace a DD, i want to improve damage a bit so when i am invited for TH, i can at least contribute to the party in more than just that 1 way. contribute well.



Try reading the thread before posting then?

WHM - Cure and Buffing both well.
BLM - Enfeebling and Nuking

We are talking about primary roles here, BLM is a nuker and WHM is a healer, buffs fall under healing and light enfeebling (uh sleep?) doesn't really count as a huge secondary role.

Aside from that, I tank almost everything on my Thief. Thief is a DD, a Tank, Utility in TH, one of the few ability to reduce hate (WHM don't regain hate that quickly, BLM can deal more damage when a THF steals enmity even if it only lasts for 3 nukes or so before they start getting beat.) Thief is a great soloer, can hold mobs very well with evasion, in the past was a decent puller, can enfeeble with bolts (zomg look, same thing you did for BLM). etc etc, stop trying to seem like THF does nothing but TH.

If you read my Edit, I said I'd take utility gain. As long as its not worthless utilities like Enmity control like their "Vision". no one has invited or needed a THF for Enmity control since i started this game in early 2004.

I agree, why you are attacking my thoughts though, I don't know.

[Karbuncle]

In abyssea a lot of your points stand. My concerns were never with Abyssea, or out-dated 75-level content.

Its Endgame out of Abyssea, and Endgame through 99 Cap. Where THF will be as weak as we were at 75 (Even further back now if you consider how much the other DD jobs were buffed).

Edit: A bit more...

I agree, but how are additional steals for more loot/gil useless utility?

Steals that do something more than take an item would be nice. Taking an item doesnt help your party. at all.

Steals that work on ANYTHING MEANINGFUL (I.E Endgame content, NMs, etc) would be nice too. I would accept them so long as they didnt share timers and actually did something useful.

Um, what about THF DD is "pitiful" atm? I assume you are referring to Voidwatch? Otherwise I hope this is a joke in regards to old content(which THF DD'd just fine on at 75 cap aside from few high end NMs) and Abyssea.

yes, we're fine in Abyssea, another point i brought up in one of my countless posts in this very thread...

We are talking about primary roles here, BLM is a nuker and WHM is a healer, buffs fall under healing and light enfeebling (uh sleep?) doesn't really count as a huge secondary role.

Aside from that, I tank almost everything on my Thief. Thief is a DD, a Tank, Utility in TH, one of the few ability to reduce hate (WHM don't regain hate that quickly, BLM can deal more damage when a THF steals enmity even if it only lasts for 3 nukes or so before they start getting beat.) Thief is a great soloer, can hold mobs very well with evasion, in the past was a decent puller, can enfeeble with bolts (zomg look, same thing you did for BLM). etc etc, stop trying to seem like THF does nothing but TH.

THF can't do any of those things you listed very well outside Abyssea. Have a THF Tank any T3+ Voidwatch NM... My concern isn't about Easy-mode Abyssea. Its Outside of Abyssea that worries me.

I agree, why you are attacking my thoughts though, I don't know.

Because your thoughts seemed to be, judging only your first post "THF is fine you have TH, Give it more Steal and Mug abilities".

Which alone didn't sound very.. intelligent. but the elaboration did help

[Karbuncle]

Wait a sec!