Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Karbuncle]

Someone summarize for me the problem with thf this thread is too long to read all the way through.

1) THF has no real use. TH2 is the best form of TH in terms of noticeable boosts, anything past that is all pretty much unnoticeable/unseeable boosts. So we're not even good for that beyond placebo effects.

2) We have no real DD capabilities, similar to a lot of lesser DD jobs, Except THF falls further behind than others in this Gap. Since 75 the gap between THFs power and the next best DD has widened much further. In this field, we don't ask to be top tier DD, simply to have the gap lessened.

3) Devs want us to be support class and "Control enmity" and as it stands THF has no real methods to "Control" enmity. 2 Abilities on a shared timer and no way to disperse extra Enmity does not a master make. So as far as the Devs "vision" of the job goes we even lack capabilities there

4) Over-all Lack of Uniqueness of the job, usefulness of the job. Right now the only thing keeping THF relevant is ignorance of Treasure Hunter, But once that becomes common knowledge I doubt THF will keep its head above water.

5) We're all disappointed by the BS Responses we got earlier, which basically to summarize tell us things like "Aura Steal is too powerful to separate from Steal, or Reduce timer", and "You can't have Subtle Blow because You melee for TH upgrades, and we feel that balances it", etc.


Sorry i can't go into more detail as i know its a bit hard to discern from these 5 points, but a lot has been discussed.

[Insaniac]

Gonna add:

5) Practically 0 job growth since the level cap increases. THF is more or less the same exact job it was at level 75 where most other jobs have grown either slightly or exponentially. TH3 and the proc system seems to have been just a placebo put in place to keep THFs from being completely forgotten when TH2 became sub-able.

[Karbuncle]

Gonna add:

5) Practically 0 job growth since the level cap increases. THF is more or less the same exact job it was at level 75 where most other jobs have grown either slightly or exponentially. TH3 and the proc system seems to have been just a placebo put in place to keep THFs from being completely forgotten when TH2 became sub-able.

And this yes.

[DebbieGibson]

Those are pretty compelling points, I am skeptical of the TH thing though.

Even with reric, mithic, enpy, thf damage is still weak?

[Karbuncle]

Those are pretty compelling points, I am skeptical of the TH thing though.

Even with reric, mithic, enpy, thf damage is still weak?

Well, In comparison to all over true "Melee DD", I would rank THF as the lowest on the pole. Like, literally bottom of the bottom, We have no real Damage capabilities.

With Relic/Empyrean, the gap is closed slightly, but so is it for a lot of other jobs. I.E: PUP would be slightly better than us without Empryean, However if both had empyrean, PUP just jumped up big time (Victory smite is boss), so THF falls behind.

Further more, in terms of Rudra's, its a limited WS, and is more or less gimp unless you stack it with SA/TA, so its use is tied to JA Timers, making Aftermath difficult to sustain unless you sacrifice WS damage to use Rudra's unstacked.

Basically, the job is heavily flawed, Its not super terrible in DD, but I'd rank it last. Maybe ahead of RNG by a small margin, actually.

Edit: This is all Non-Abyssea related. Inside Abyssea we're a bit more powerful, outside on meaningful content is where the job becomes lacking, and falls behind almost all others.

[Insaniac]

A THF is much better off with any of those weapons. The stacked WS damage from mandau and twashtar is respectable but lower when compared to equally geared 2H DDs but outside of Abyssea our DPS on anything above VT is pretty abysmal. The general consensus as this thread has progress is that we are less concerned with a damage boost and more concerned with the actual usefulness of the job. We would love a few new DD toys and it's not ridiculous to ask for them but most of what we as a whole have come up with are utility JAs and tweaks to existing JAs that are currently useless such as steal mug and despoil.

[Zirael]

Someone summarize for me the problem with thf this thread is too long to read all the way through.

Something like this:

We believe making Aura Steal a separate ability would be over-powered. If we did do this, it’s likely that its use on notorious monsters would be removed and it would have even less of an effect than it does now.

SE: Fish should not dream on flying

Absorb-ATB* (absorb attributes)　DRK Lv91
Absorbs an enemy’s beneficial status effects.

Absorb-ATB* (Absorb attributes)
　→Used in conjunction with Nether Void you are able to absorb two status effects.

SE: there you have it DRKs, your dreams are coming true!

While thieves possess superior stats for all of the above, we do understand your concerns. I apologize that I can’t go into detail about specific abilities, but we are planning to make adjustments so that thieves are really able to shine.

SE: we care about THF, wait and believe, that’s a promise!

[Laphine]

I think the difference between thf and other dds is much smaller outside. SA/TA really is meaningful when everyone has floored crit rate, and those bandwagon weapons completely lose their juice (this is why i fear what that new WAR JA will do). And more, while everyone has floored crit rate, i'm very close to cap against the new VT stuff/NMs on dyna while meleeing. Power being mithra+af3+twash+dex merits for sure, but its there.

We should save that thread summary btw lol. So much went on ever since.

[Insaniac]

That's crazy talk. The gap in abyssea is far smaller. Outside in voidwatch and even old content like einherjar THF gets pretty much smooshed by "pure DD jobs". Even if WS damage is closer it doesn't change the fact that 2-handers WS 3 times as much. I don't see the floored crit rates either.

[Laphine]

idk idk, the spreadsheets kinematics made sure show this as well. My thf build is able to beat a equally geared (or the much i know about )/buffed ukon war/sam there. So after i got to this conclusion i kinda stopped my lust for power.

edit: equally buffed is key tho. More haste (mainly) and war starts going crazy. But anyways, i didn't even set magic haste: outside abyssea we both get tp in ~32 secs (5 hit war btw). And this also is another advantage for me because the WSing syncs with SA/TA.