Screwed again: Proposed THF job adjustments.

[Arcon]

Yes, but post DW, it's enhanced even more with the off-hand hit on WS, stats from 2 daggers, and of course, the 15% faster attacks. Not to mention being able to cap haste as /war now (with haste, 2x march and merited haste samba). Without native DW, /war only reached 76.5%. This also shows that the DW3 from /NIN when you have full haste support only reduces the amount of tp you gain, and won't make you swing any faster. (so don't bother with boomerang if you have full haste support ;p )

Did THF get DWII? I remember reading something about it, but don't see it anywhere online right now.

Anyway, even if they did that's still 10% difference. And that is massive, /WAR won't come near that bonus, not with Berserk and Double Attack and Aggressor. Why? Because I'm being realistic. You never have BRD/WHM and DNC with you in a party. I almost never have either.

THF/NIN with Suppanomimi, Raider's Boomerang and Nusku's Sash (max Dual Wield, except Auric Dagger) still needs 67% Haste to cap. With 25% from gear that still requires 42% magical Haste. That means you still need a BRD/WHM with Langeleik and +2 hands to get to cap. If you have that, good for you. Now your THF/NIN is almost perfect. THF/WAR swings almsot 20% slower now. Means when THF/NIN does 5 hits, THF/WAR does 4 hits. Double Attack gives you up to 8.4% extra hits outside of Abyssea and up to 6.9% extra hits inside Abyssea due to Apocalypse Atma (assuming you have no Double Attack gear, if you do the difference is even smaller). Effectively it means that THF/NIN still lands 17.5% more hits than THF/WAR (at least) in the same time. Do you think Berserk gives you 17.5% more damage? (Hint: no)

Oh, and Dual Wield, if not over cap, gives more TP than you lose for any relevant value in a time interval. I don't even know if it still reduces TP gain after cap, depends if it's applied before or after Haste. Anyone know which it is?

Saying THF/WAR can cap haste now is true but misleading. It won't happen in any amount to be relevant for comparison between the two subjob choices. Regardless, I wouldn't sub WAR on THF other than to post spike damage WS screenshots, which I'm sure plenty of people are doing. And regardless of that, even under the best of circumstances the difference is marginal at best. Hence, THF still got nothing. The only thing native Dual Wield is good for is so it doesn't unequip my offhand weapon when I change to /BLM for warp when I'm doing quests or something. Although I wouldn't be surprised if SE actually used that as an excuse why they're not giving THF anything else.

[Sortis]

Get out of here with your logic!

Everyone knows that doesn't work.

I have only played 66 levels of THF but i'm fairly certain hiding doesn't work on true sight mobs...right?

[Karbuncle]

I have only played 66 levels of THF but i'm fairly certain hiding doesn't work on true sight mobs...right?

Hiding does not work on True sight. In case you missed my joke, it was that your point was logical and god forbid the Devs look at anything logically.

And Arcon, Yes, I tested and proved THF got Dual Wield II, Its somewhere here in these forums, But i don't recall where, I added it to ffxiclopedia as well.

Edit: Can i be upset they're giving Subtle Blow to Automatons now and still refuse to give it to THF? I'm happy for Automatons but man

[Insaniac]

Evidence is the fact they said if they made aura steal it's own ability it wouldn't work on NMs. So for the drk spell:
A) It will likely have a recast similar to steal.
or
B) It will not work on NMs or have additional restrictions if it's less than 5 mins

edit:
or
C) They don't care since drk is a DD job and therefore its ok for them to steal buffs more often than thf, if they were trying to buff their damage.

Using SEs BSing as evidence lol. Anyway.. there's no good reason to believe either before the spell is released.

And yes Arcon THF did get DWII. I also tested that myself. I'm thinking we'll get at least DWIII native by 99 which will be nice but for now /NIN still kills /WAR in almost every situation.

[Sortis]

Hiding does not work on True sight. In case you missed my joke, it was that your point was logical and god forbid the Devs look at anything logically.

And Arcon, Yes, I tested and proved THF got Dual Wield II, Its somewhere here in these forums, But i don't recall where, I added it to ffxiclopedia as well.

Edit: Can i be upset they're giving Subtle Blow to Automatons now and still refuse to give it to THF? I'm happy for Automatons but man

It just wasn't a direct reply so I was wondering if that was aimed elsewhere =P oh and *waves* I talked to you when I first came back to the game about a month ago, not sure if you remember me sending you a random tell asking about PLD yep thanks again for helping me out. So back to the topic at hand, now that someone with a minimal grasp on how THF works has solved the "crappy loot steal problem" ummm do I get a cookie from the devs?

[Karbuncle]

Is it sad i still hold some shrivel of hope the Devs will do something with THF that makes the job better?

Anyway, You only get cookies if you're a WAR, THFs get AIDs.

[Laphine]

The difference between /war and /nin is currently very very very very small. My spreadsheet shows a 1% difference on nins favor against a lv97 mob inside abyssea. But war is no doubt the best thing on super hard stuff (or equally hard outside).

Oh and under 180 delay dw only do decrease tp gain if you just lost a decimal, right at that point of change. And from then on it increases tp gain until you lose another decimal. It's like a saw graph. Before the tp floor removal it behaved like haste under 180 delay.

[Insaniac]

TP gain feels painfully slow /war. The only time I would ever consider using it is when I'm dumping TP but in most cases if you're dumping TP /sam will help your over-all damage more. Also, when I say "kills /war" I don't mean in only damage where it is still outperformed by /nin. Consider that /war you have no native subtle blow and no shadows. The increase in WS damage vs the loss of subtle blow, shadows, and DPS damage means /war is just not really viable in my opinion.

[Karbuncle]

Its viable if you have a good support team.

But not viable if you're low man with bad players or just plain low-man and you're the only tank. Even then though, some mobs its better.

Eh, Hopefully we get Dual Wield 3, then it wont matter either way, /nin will just become a "Survivability" support job.

[DebbieGibson]

Someone summarize for me the problem with thf this thread is too long to read all the way through.