Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Korpg]

And curebombing isn't required when the only other member on a mob's hate list is a BLM who cast sleepga. It isn't THAT hard to get more hate than them. Two cures?

Why do you have to cure the BLMs in the first place? Can't they cure themselves? Or better yet, can't the WHM not cure them? If you are in a party/alliance where there is only 1 WHM, and you, then your party is doomed to fail because of poor planning, especially outside of abyssea where MP is more of an issue.

Your idea sucks because there is a simple way to not have your avatars attack the slept mobs.

I'll say it again though:

Don't
Be
On
The
Top
Of
The
Hate
List

It is as simple as that.

[Frost]

So wait... Your solution is to just stand there with your pet out and not cure anyone?

Unfortunately this is the mentality of the majority of Summoners...
While I am not saying all Summoners are idiots, I will say that there's a disproportionate amount of idiots that leveled Summoner...

[Karbuncle]

But are we seriously talking about attacking slept mobs?

This seems like the kind of shit that shouldn't even need to be discussed or for there to be a mechanic for:

1: Don't do it.
2: Don't do it.
3: Unless its the next target to be killed.

4: Tell your pet to stop. . .?

Avatars Auto-attack an Enemy that is aggressive to the SMN, Meaning if you're on top of the hate list the Avatar will go after said mob. Its not as simple as "Dont do it". The solution is not to be on top of the hate list.

The problem arises in situations where Sleepga is involved, and if the BLM is in low HP you could cure and help, but you'd be on top of the hate list. Or you could stand there and do nothing. The problem is we have to make a choice to help, or to stand there, simply so we dont risk our pet waking up a slept mob.

These days our pets can take most mobs, problem is AoE WS or Magic from certain mobs could cause problems. So i see where Tarage is coming from.

So options 1-3 Aren't in the summoners control.

Option 4, That being said, we can't just "Tell our pets to stop", that is the problem being discussed, The only way to "Tell our pets to stop" is to release them, meaning Desummon them. Which for some SMNs is a problem, especially if they're using Avatar's Favor.

So option 4 is out as well.

Its not a giant problem but it is noticeable in group scenarios, especially in places like New Dynamis, or the like.

[Symulence]

Would it be at all possible to give SAM/NIN a Great Katana weapon skill similar to Sanguine Blade? Tachi: Ketsu for example. (Ketsueki translates to "blood" in english if you were curious about the suggested name). This would be a good addition to the overall survivability of a samurai, because Third Eye is not the most reliable Job Ability out there to say the least. Samurai if one of the few jobs that cannot heal themselves without using a mage or dancer sub job.

[Korpg]

So wait... Your solution is to just stand there with your pet out and not cure anyone?

Unfortunately this is the mentality of the majority of Summoners...
While I am not saying all Summoners are idiots, I will say that there's a disproportionate amount of idiots that leveled Summoner...

No, I'm saying that you can cure people if needed, but be smart about it.

Curing the tank or some DDs to help out the healer is one thing. Curing the BLMs to top off their HP after they sleep a bunch of mobs is another.

Besides, who would have their avatar out doing nothing anyway, unless to spam merited BPs without feeding TP? The example Tarage gave is to have Diabolos out JUST for favor. If you are going to help out a party, have Shiva out and use Heavenly Strike if the only way to keep an avatar out is by favor. If you can't keep an avatar out with favor's help, don't bring the SMN period, come as something that isn't a detriment to the party/alliance.

[Tarage]

Korpg won't listen, he never has and never will. Even if everyone on the forum told him they didn't agree, he would say they were all wrong.

He is a troll, nothing more.

[Korpg]

I'll just bring my post from the SMN forum over here, because you obviously don't listen anyway:

"My way of playing SMN is the only way. If you don't play it my way, you are wrong. Everyone agrees with me."

Let's quote some people then, who 'agree with you'.

Obviously reading is not your strong suit. Not once did I say that my way or the highway. That was Dallas. What I am saying is that you are asking for "solution" to a problem that A) isn't a problem for most because most SMNs are actually smarter than you and don't curebomb the BLMs so they can be on top of the hate list and B) will create a bigger problem because it takes away the best thing about a SMN, especially when it comes to soloing NMs.

I bolded the main points of my argument for when you tl:dr. Like you have been doing.

That's from just two threads. I could go dredge up more, but my point is made. I am NOT alone in this. I am NOT the only one who thinks this is a problem.

Karbuncle and Byrth also stated that the problem lies with the SMN being on top of the hate list. You had to cut those out of the quotes because they would hurt your argument in the first place. hiko was making a suggestion, not agreeing with you. Mala thinks that spirits should be updated to be better pets than avatars, so any of his arguments are flawed anyway. Sasaraixx wants a Stay command, which SE specifically said that they won't do for SMN, and that Stay will be a BST only trait. Tannlore has no idea, like you, about enmity control or hate issues, and it shows from that quote you made. He, as do you, think that avatars just suddenly start attacking slept mobs, which most people, not just SMNs alone, know that is not the case.

But this has never been about that has it? Even with so many people telling you they don't like it, you don't care. Even if it is a legitimate suggestion, you don't care. You just want to argue, and increase your post count, and fluff your ego.

That is why you are a troll. Go away.

If anything, the only one who is a troll, even by your definitions, is you. But you are also a noob, which by definition is: somebody who refuses to learn and blindly accepts the first thing he sees as truth.

You are the one who can't learn anything about hate control. You are the one who can't understand your own definitions, you are the one who can't even read without somebody having to bold the main points for you. You are also the one who take people's words and try to twist it for your own cause.

Also, saying that everyone agrees with you while nobody agrees with me is false also. Not only have I talked with people on this forum, I have talked to actual SMNs in this game, ones who know what they are doing, ones who have their own playstyle, and ones who's playstyle are very similar to yours. I told them your side of the argument, including just making it so avatars won't auto-attack sleeping mobs, but still attack everything else, and they all agreed with me.

Your suggestion is a lazy-man's suggestion because since you can't figure out hate controls, you want to bend around your problem so you don't have to learn. That is your main problem: instead of fixing it, you make it so people has to work around your problem for you.

But that is not how SE works. They are not going to make it so avatars are going to not attack sleeping mobs. They are either going to do nothing or take away the whole auto-aggression aspect of avatars. If they listen to you, you are going to make 75% of the SMN population (not those who burned, those who actually leveled the job from scratch) angry because you took away the only aspect of being able to solo harder NMs away from them, all because you are too lazy to figure out a simple puzzle.

Sorry about the tl:dr.

[Xellith]

No, I'm saying that you can cure people if needed, but be smart about it.

Curing the tank or some DDs to help out the healer is one thing. Curing the BLMs to top off their HP after they sleep a bunch of mobs is another.

Besides, who would have their avatar out doing nothing anyway, unless to spam merited BPs without feeding TP? The example Tarage gave is to have Diabolos out JUST for favor. If you are going to help out a party, have Shiva out and use Heavenly Strike if the only way to keep an avatar out is by favor. If you can't keep an avatar out with favor's help, don't bring the SMN period, come as something that isn't a detriment to the party/alliance.

MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
THF BRD WAR BLU WHM BLM

?

[Korpg]

MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
THF BRD WAR BLU WHM BLM

?

Too many WHMs in my opinion. Also, what, besides Voidwatch for procs, need an alliance to kill anyway? Voidwatch wouldn't have things to be slept, so that is out of the whole "avatars are waking mobs" argument of Tarage's.

But I don't know what the point of your post is. Should take out a WHM in 2 of those parties and put a RDM or COR (or one of each) in them.

[Leonlionheart]

MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
MNK MNK MNK MNK WHM WHM
THF BRD WAR BLU WHM BLM

?

More like...

WAR WAR WAR WAR SMN BRD > party cycles
WAR WAR WAR WAR SMN BRD > party cycles
THF BLM BLU WHM NIN WAR > pick your worst WAR.

If you have that, and 2hours ready, nothing will last longer than perfect defense.