Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Rezeak]

On the DRK thing....

Tp for +DMG = Nice if done correctly

DMG taken for Magic Bonuses.... There is so much to say....

To make Magical WS worth it .... why can't our WS we already have be worth it? outside that yes being able to deal magic Ws DMG on a mob resistant to phyiscal DMG is nice.
To make Elemental magic worth it... We are melees not mages unless ur adding a new low cost/low cast time Dark magic spells for DDing with.


If you want to fix DRK magic or make em use it there are SIMPLE thing u can do
Stun II(Dark based would be a bonus)
Fix Absorb spells - they would all be worth casting if the duration was 3-5 mins + no decay + increased effect
Then maybe a dark based Holy which DMG is based off how much HP u have or havn't got or it could consume TP to cast as well to be balanced so the DMG is decent.

Now add those then give us a DMG taken stance to make absorbs/drains/aspirs insta cast and DRK will use magic simple as.

Btw this is just an example but read the DRK forums some more to get a better idea of what to do with DRKs magics also may i dare say it play DRK and see how useless elemental magic is lmao.

[Nebo]

THF - If Steal/Aurasteal/Despoil recast timers aren't seperated and lowered to start with there is no point in wasting update resources on these. They will still be useless.

The success rate of steal/despoil is not the issue. It is not even the point. The problem with these abilities is that they are useless, poorly designed, and mashed together in a way that makes no logical sense.

Aside from the fact that steal/despoil don't work on NM's or most worthwhile endgame content, there are a total two things worth stealing in the entire game. Increasing the success rate of Steal is not going to address this.

But if you are increasing the success rate of steal with TH, Aurasteal NEEDS to be a seperate ability. If not, dispelling enemies that have useless (I cannot stress this enough) items to steal will become very difficult. But again, Aurasteal should have never been attached to Steal from the start. Stealing an enhancment effect should have never had anything to do with stealing an item. It is simply absurd.

No amount of increasing the success rate for Despoil is going to fix that ability if you don't address what is wrong with it. Inflicting enfeebling effects should have nothing to do with stealing USELESS (are we getting this yet?) items. Despoil should seek to steal the enfeebling effect it inflicts, not items. If Despoil is going to be made useful at all, it needs to be specific. This variable enfeeble that it inflicts now is of no use to anyone. It doesn't work on anything worthwhile, it inflicts effects that have no use whatsoever to the monster type you are fighting (Hello Magic Attack down on mobs that don't use magigc YAY!). Despoil was a complete waste of multiple update resources. Upping its success rate is not going to fix it. Don't waste your time.

More party only restrictions on job abilities....more useless enmity manipulation garbage....more giving away everything that is unique to THF.

GG, SE. GG.

[Airget]

Warrior:
The examples seem kind of mundane for what they want to do with them. IMO I think possibly a JA that allowed them a window to change weapons without losing TP would make use of the fact they are masters of nearly all weaponry. As for changing weapon dmg type to one of the following I also think there's a better way to go about that. Which would be the above job ability. I think if they want to add a sense of uniqueness to what WAR does they should add 2 Job traits. The first one would be usable as a sub and the other would be unique to the Warrior:
37-40-45-49 "Latent Arms" -unlock hidden enhancement based on weapon used-
75-95 "Arms Master" -unlock secret techniques based on weapon used-

The first ability would also have enhancement for katana and Great Katana since it can be used by subs but basically the idea is, each weapon would grant an enhancement when you are Main or sub war. Also WAR would gain unique enhancements only available to them at a higher level. The idea behind this is allowing a venue to encourage the use of war as a sub and allow one to play around with the idea of testing and trying our the different weapon enhancements from the JT "Latent Arms"

Another thing I would suggest is alter the JA Tomahawk to not only lower a mobs "dmg resist" but also open a window that exploits the mobs "hidden" weapon weakness. So let's say along with lowering an elemental dmg resist it also opens a window to take extra damage from blunt attacks. If WAR is aware of that then upon throwing the tomahawk they can alter their weapon to do blunt damage thus increasing their damage by a large amount. Though this doesn't only help them it would also help any other DD using blunt damage against that mob so in effect you also give them a slight enhancement with supporting others.

Monk:
With what they want to do with boost and chakra. I would think that unless they alter or add another Boost command it would be hard to make is used with Chakra. For that I would suggest adding two JA for Monk. "Harness" and "Unleash" basically Harness would be on the same timer as boost however it would be a boost that doesn't get used when you attack. Unleash would be the trigger allowing one to use their charged up boost in an attack or chakra. So a Monk would be able to Harness up Boost and save it for a chakra if they wished, or even a powered up chi blast or a powered up WS attack.

WHM:
Ability to actually reduce magic damage taken will be nice and the ability to actually remove charm will be a godsend for rani, dyna-sandy and the orcish in general. With this though I wonder if they'll consider giving WHM an immunity to being charmed or at least a boost to the resist. One suggestion that comes to mind is a JA that allows the WHM to make themselves immune to one status effect but of course it can only be used on them so basically.
"Divine Aura" (Next -na spell cast on the user will create 100% resist based on healing magic skill)

Let's just say capped healing magic would allow a barrier to last 5 mins and it would be ona 5 min recast allowing the WHM to stay 100% resisted to that as long as they keep in mind of it wearing off.

BLM:
With risk vs reward seeming to be a big deal with BLM they seem to want to improve their damage but at the same time make it a risky trade off. Judging from their example I think what they plan on doing is this
"Elemental Rage" -Increase enmity gained, Increases Mag Crit hit rate by 25%-

Which would fit in with the ability to deal more ele damage but with a risk behind it.

RDM:
I'm curious about the new enfeebling magic. I wonder if they'll actually be new enfeebles or perhaps different elemental alignments of the same enfeeble. Such as an Lightning-based paralyze(Electrocute) or a Fire-based silence(Parch) which would allow them to enfeeble mobs that may be strong again certain elemental affinities.
Or even a JA such as "Cursed Seal" which would allow the next enfeeble to be 100% on the mob however they would be inflicted with the same enfeeble. If they remove the enfeeble on themselves then the enfeeble on the mob would be removed, however the limit for the enfeeble would be a straight 5 min duration.

THF:
The intimidation factor sounds interesting I"m curious to see how that will play out.

PLD:
I think the ability they have in mind should last long then one attack. Hm, the ability they have in mind sounds like one that's already been introduced but lowering enmity lost does sound like something that would be of help to PLD's.

DRK:
I find this adjustment interesting though I would add a tweak to it. With their second idea I feel like perhaps they should make it where the DRK takes damage while this is up to increase it's "Bloodlust" which in turn enhances it's magical abilities. Or perhaps it could be the fact that the more damage they take draws them closer to their astral body allowing them to be more in turn with their magical abilities. I think one thing people are forgetting about jobs like DRK and even NIN is that flexibility through other means of damage types is what gives other melee's and edge over one another.

For example during invincible jobs like WAR and DRG are useless for the most part however MNK can use formless strikes, and DRK/NIN can use their magic to continue dealing damage. The same goes with Perfect Dodge, While WAR could attempt to use RA it's not very practical however DRK/NIN can still use magic to deal damage and RNG can still deal damage within this time frame. Straight up damage improvements aren't the only way to improve a job's ability but also their flexibility with being able to change the type of damage they can do to an enemy. Judging by some of the upcoming updates they have in mind we might be seeing more mobs with changing weaknesses.

BST:
I'm sure some may be disappointed that Charm wasn't really brought up as a change though I am curious as to what kind of enhancements they have in mind that would work just like Odin/Alexander. What's interesting is they aren't planning to make it a 2hr ability so it'll be a new means to be supportive. Though I do ponder if this will clutter a BST inv or if they have something in mind like NIN.

One thing that comes in mind is that the JA works like "Phantom Roll" opening up a list of potential "Pet" AOE enhancements or enfeebles that the BST can choose. Say the BST gets the ability at 30.

They could have fun with this ability, they could have some the BST learn naturally every 10 levels from 30, and then some work like dice that you have to use to learn and could come from NMs or HNMs. Since they do plan on giving BLU HNM spells I don't think it would be unfair to allow BST to call upon HNM like mobs to help them out in battle. Perhaps the JA's recast could be based on the monster called but the item used to call it could be universal.

If they plan on making this ability but have specific jugs be used for each one then the idea will fall flat, however if they can work it out to work in the same manner as "quick draw's" requirement of needing a consumable and Phantom Rolls List selection of what roll to use I can see this being a fun support tool for BST allowing them to play more of a party roll.

BRD:
Can't go wrong with more magic defense lol

RNG:
The idea of a TA like effect with their attacks sounds like a godsend for any tank who's lost hate from a RNG lol

SAM:
enhancing their effectiveness with WS does seem to stick with their mastery of WS and use of meditate and other abilities that allow them to knock out WS with insane speed.

NIN:
The fix example they gave makes me think of something like "Follow Through" -Ignore the next dmg that would deal dmg or go through shadows- which would support their parrying abilities as well as their ability to watch an enemies movement.

It also sounds like they want to create an ability that allows them to be temp tanks to get some stress off the main tank without forcing them to tank the rest of the fight so that they can continue to fight in the way they were before. I am interested to see how these ideals will pan out and with the adjustments they've made so far I would say they've been taking NIN in the right direction.

DRG:
It's support enhancement sounds like something that could be helpful though I"m curious to see how they will play DRG.

SMN;
New avatars that can actually be used will cause any SMN to go crazy. Hopefully that's what's planned with these 2 reveals and the ability to shorten BP timers does sound nice to allow SMN to attack at a faster pace.

BLU:
Vague but they have a huge arsenal of abilities on hand as well as a wide amount of JT that they can access so it's not to bad in terms of what they mention. The fact they are saying HNM abilities will be learn able should be enough though I imagine it'll be quite a challenge to learn them.

PUP:
With recent attachment additions as well as the promise of more I see this as a good path for PUP, Hopefully they do take a look at the AI and tweak it in a more logical way since that does seem to be the major issue atm. I think even adding attachments that prioritized certain actions would make PUP's happy even if they have to use a slot just to make use of the ability.

DNC:
Giving support through means of a regain ability sounds cool, I"m curious as to how much it'll actually give. They already have a nice range of support abilities at hand so this does really support their idea of keeping them as a team player.

SCH:
TP decay on a target sounds nice. It seems like they want to penalize mobs enhancements which does sound like a fun path to take SCH. I wonder ihow many spells will be revealed for the status enhancements. It seems like they might release spells that say "If this enhancement increases their STR/ATT then the effect is cut in half" Though I think it would be more interesting to have backfire enfeebles. Where as dispel just downright gets rid of an enhancement, make spells that cause the enhancement on them to turn into an enfeeble. So in terms of the STR/ATT one instead of granted a STR/ATT boost instead they'll have a slow att speed or something to that effect.

As for the planned idea to add unique spells under the effect of Tabula Rasa I wonder what they actually have in mind lol.

What really catches my eye though is the last thing they mention. I"m curious to see how they'll revamp the merit system for certain jobs. It seems like after all the census reports they finally realized that some jobs just don't find their merits to be useful and SE has taken note of that.

With all this info in hand it definitely looks like they are about ready to introduce the test servers. It would definitely allow them to tweak the abilities and release job adjustments at a quicker pace. Though just seeing everything they have in mind definitely excites me and makes me wonder how it'll all pan out. With everything they have planned it seems like it'lls be possible to actually make each job unique from one another.

[Insaniac]

Eh, my take on it:
1) DNC Flourish is going to be a Flourishes III and probably consume 3 Finishing Moves, which means it'll be worthless for everyone Twashtar or not.
2) The second job ability, depended how it's implemented, may be somewhat useful for a DNC with a supporting roll... unless they make it a Waltz.
3) They didn't mention they were splitting Waltz timers, which is a source of great sadness for me.

It wouldn't make a ton of sense to put a forced triple attack in the same flourish group as a forced double attack would it?

ALSO: Everything Nebo said.

[Olor]

PLEASE GIVE BSTS A FREE PET

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE

Having to pay through the nose ALL THE TIME sucks. Give us a decent pet that is free. Make a jug item that we have to enhance with magian trials to get access to a pet or something. Even if we only got 1 free pet on a half hour recast - it would save a ton of money for when you are just doing something quick in a zone or something (like Campaign).

It really sucks to have to either lose my jug pet after a campaign battle, or sit around waiting for another one and farming crappy stuff vs. chasing after one in a different zone.

Also for BLU - more spell points please. I don't see the point in moar spells when you never equip almost ANY of them because you don't have the points...

[Byrth]

It wouldn't make a ton of sense to put a forced triple attack in the same flourish group as a forced double attack would it?

Every other Flourish category has 3 members, and it makes a lot of sense to me at least to put a DA force and a TA force in the same category as they're pretty similar abilities. It is isn't like you can both DA and TA on your next hit anyway, and the two current flourishes in Flourishes III are mutually exclusive (don't stack with each other or, oddly, sneak attack).

[Kuraudo]

Paladin

*Adding a new ability that reduces the amount of damage taken by a party member for one hit.

**Adding a new ability that slows enmity reduction.

*The new ability that reduces amount of damage taken for one hit doesn't sound too great. It should be for a certain duration and it shouldn't restrict you to just your party. I'm tired of seeing job abilities being restricted to party only (Like Cover). Please make it where you can use the ability on anyone in the alliance.

**The second ability sounds like the job trait, Guardian. This is NOT what Paladin needs. What we need is a job ability that allows us to steal hate from someone (Like Accomplice) and an ability that gives PLD a tremendous hate boost (Like Provoke but more potent). These abilities would help PLD in the situations of when a healer or damage dealer has capped hate or there is a hate reset.

You developers had the chance to tweak Cover for the July update and didn't bother changing Cover to where we are allowed to Cover anyone in our alliance. I want to be allowed to Cover anyone in my alliance! Not only that but Cover doesn't work very well on certain Notorious Monsters that have conal attacks (Iron Giants) rendering it as a useless ability against them. It's called Cover and yet we can't Cover our members from these type of attacks! Why not!? It's not like it would be game breaking or something. You're hindering us from doing our job as a PLD.

I'm tired of seeing these garbage updates to PLD. It's in need of a huge tweak and yet we get minimal results.

The whole role of a Paladin is to be able to protect your members by taking control of the enemy and yet you developers aren't introducing new abilities that allow us to do that better at higher levels. Let us be better protectors please!

[Merton9999]

SCH
Lots of good suggestions on the job board so I won't bother listing them here. I'll just say like many jobs the manifesto doesn't sound anything like what the people on the English boards have been clamoring for at all. The past 15 levels have seen mostly party enhancement spells added to SCH, but with such underwhelming potency that they are often cast just because we have them, without any real benefit. I'd much rather see those spells (as well as storms) enhanced than to get a new TP/status enfeeble, which seems much more suited to RDM. I'm also worried about the Tabula Ras spell. If it's Ultima or Death, great. If it's just another Addendum to let us cast Raise 3, then yuck. Like so many posts on the job board, I agree the healing side is what needs work here - much more potent enhancements or a mechanism/spell that matches Cure V.

RDM
Not possible to get excited about new enfeebles or changes to enfeebling magic yet. This could be great or terrible. I ask that they be RDM-exclusive, useful to a party, and not completely useless on any mob that matters. A Quick Magic ability sounds gee wiz neato, but it's not going to make RDM more desired in a group, unless the cooldown time is extremely short, which I doubt.

WHM
Charmna is OK, but all I care about is Reviviscence.

[Jile]

* Vision
Paragons of virtue who never hesitate to step in and defend their friends in a fight, nor to take the brunt of enemy attacks while wearing the heaviest armor imaginable.

We respect the unselfish and bold nature of the paladin, so we plan on further developing their ability to maintain control of battles and keeping others out of harm's way, if only temporarily.

* Example Adjustments
o Adding a new ability that reduces the amount of damage taken by a party member for one hit.
o Adding a new ability that slows enmity reduction.

Okay, we get it.. Stop beating a dead horse.

<SE>: lolPLD

[Finuve]

People that don't play DRK, please don't try and weigh in on DRK changes and I will continue to not put ideas forth on your jobs

Dev/Reps, please read DRK forums, the people there, hate this elemental magic concept, please see Dark Magic for DRK enhancements