Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[Tamoa]

Example Adjustments

Adding new ability that would allow warriors to change a weapon's damage type (slashing/blunt/piercing) during combat.
Adding a new ability that would ensure the next melee attack lands a critical hit.

So full of win!

Also, my whm likes the idea of Charmna, and my blu likes the idea of learning spells from HNMs!

[Ravenmore]

So full of win!

Also, my whm likes the idea of Charmna, and my blu likes the idea of learning spells from HNMs!

Love how they still only give blus adding new blu magic, we were told of the HNM spells when abyssea was new so nothing new there.

[Xellith]

Vision
Puppetmasters feel comfortable in almost any type of role thanks to their automatons, but countless hours of research is needed to create the perfect puppet to deal with various and sundry situations.

We want to bring out the unique characteristics inherent in each automaton via creative new attachments as well as abilities that extract the potential latent in each frame.

Example Adjustments

Introducing an assortment of new attachments.
Adding an ability that restores an automaton's HP.
Fixing the Automotons Broken AI

Fixed that for you... seriously...

[Dreamin]

Cait Sith and Atomos

is win for SMN!!!

[Korpg]

Cait Sith and Atomos

is win for SMN!!!

Actually, out of all the updates with avatars in it, I'm more excited about the other thing included in the notes for SMN:

A new ability that expends an additional amount of MP to shorten the recast time for blood pacts.

I just hope that the costs associated with this isn't like +10 perp cost for -10 BP timer to be included into the cap. Meaning that we still are stuck with 45 second recast timer, but we don't "have" to have BP- gear at all....

Lower the cap, not just the recast.

[Aequis]

Read the opening comment about RDM and thought SE had put the BRD description in the wrong place:

"Support specialists who excel at transforming their allies from mere mortals into demigods with their enhancements."

I can think of:

• Refresh - not exclusive now.

• Refresh II - BRD get equivalent MP regeneration, but it's superior as it stacks with Sublimation.

• Haste - WHM, BLU, SMN and all /WHM get this.

• Phalanx II - even if you gear for it and go 5/5 merits, Phalanx is better and can be used with Accession.

I believe our strength more lies in our ability to debilitate foes and weaken them, but we've not had much of that lately. We will lose Addle exclusivity at Lv.96 to WHM, so we need something to compensate for that. A lot of potential, but let's see what they decide on.

I know all of the things they listed are "examples", but most seem quite odd. PLD looks extremely underwhelming and whilst they are mostly left out of Abyssea set-ups, I was hoping that it would be given something to broaden its use.

DRG. The old Jump/High Jump aren't used anymore, due to the TP-boosting effects of Spirit/Soul Jump and the guaranteed critical hits if the wyvern's out. I don't understand augmenting jumps no-one uses, and then giving them a reverse Trick Attack effect...? Making our wyverns more resistant though, at least they got that right. We also need Camlann's Torment changing somewhat.

DNC changes look okay, but again it depends how they're implemented. WHM is so-so. Cannot think of many situations you need to remove Charm (Salvage, Dynamis-Sandy, about two Abyssea NMs etc.). It used to be Dispellable.

BST, adding to the range of stuff we can Charm is irrelevant if we still cannot Charm inside Abyssea. Even if you forget Abyssea, Lv.76+ jug pets are superior. That part of our job is mostly over.

The rest of the changes that apply to jobs I have levelled really don't excite me that much. I still get the glaring sense that SE aren't really up to speed with how the game is played. Some jobs' roles are now being blurred to the point of obscureness. The example of SCH vs basically any mage is a prime example. Never should anything they do be "comparable" to another job's speciality (in fact better, as they can Rapture/Ebullience) - that's defeating the entire point, Square-Enix...

[Nala]

Warrior Example Adjustments
Adding new ability that would allow warriors to change a weapon's damage type (slashing/blunt/piercing) during combat. => Very interesting idea, would allow warriors to be alot more tactical.

Adding a new ability that would ensure the next melee attack lands a critical hit. => not saying im exactly against this idea or that it is even a true clone there of but this is one of many abilities they are giving away from thief, which as i will outline later on is getting jack in the way of compensation.

Monk:
Vision
We'd like to see monks further mature into an even more supportive attacking role (wut?) within the party. There's still room to build upon their renowned self-defense tactics such as Chakra and Counter, and they can also benefit from some extra training in skills like Subtle Blow and Chi Blast that leave foes too weak to fend off attacks from other party members.

even more? since when? mnk's have either been counter tanks or straight DD's as far as i know, unless some one can further elaborate on what they mean by even more? besides as i said with warrior this whole bluing of lines between jobs is kind of counter productive of actually having 20 DIFFRENT jobs, we already have dancer as a supportive attacking class.

Example Adjustments
Adding a new effect to Boost that increases Chakra's effectiveness or makes Chakra's HP-recovery bonus gradually increase by level. => Silly, Plain and simple, only situation i can think of where this makes a difference or is useful is solo between fights as a means to recover a greater amount of HP before resting.

Adding a new effect to Chi Blast that reduces an enemy's TP. => chi blast's recast is such that i would think this to be a marginally useful ability. well would add a tad more utility to ability but still once every 3 min is pretty abysmal in terms of utility.

White Mage

Example Adjustments
Adding a new ability that reduces magic damage taken by party members. => then whats shell for? or perhaps they mean a buff that directly effects MDB?

Adding a new spell that removes Charm from a party member. => honestly now... wheres the damn anti amnsia spells? hell give me an echo drop type item for it ill pay for it... not really much else to say on whm its one of the few jobs ive little experience in, would be interested to hear what the other players have to say in reguards to the needs of WHM.

Black Mage Example Adjustments
Adding new abilities that increase the likelihood of dealing more elemental magic damage at the cost of greater risk. => im gonna take a stab and guess that risk in this cause is higher enmity, doing more damage is nice sure but why do you insist on keep adding anything that screws with enmity while you still acknowlage that the emity system as it stands needs major review.

Adding a new ability that makes the next spell cast cost 0 MP. => sounds nice, cant imagine you'd be able to use it offen, might make for a good desperation/death through type move.

Red Mage Example Adjustments
Adding abilities that reduce to zero the casting time or recast time for the next spell/ninjutsu/song. => meant to mention this on blm but whats up with adding ja's that offer mini 2 hour effects lately, sekkanoki, blm propsed JA and now this? not that its a bad thing but still.

New enfeebling magic spells. => right so you gut RDM by offering much like thief, thier job specific qualities that make them unique (Refresh/convert from SJ) and now want to make them back into more enfeebling role, cant say that better enfeebles/ones that can be landed on up to date content is bad, but if you really want to mainstay thier focus on enfeebling give them spells like amnesia/potent plague, zombie, stuff truly crippling/debilitating.

Thief

/rant on

Don't even bother ajdusting us any more, you're already planing on giving away anything that made us unique or have already done so, ranger with TH, dancer with triple attack, war with force crit capabilities, you want to give us augments to steal? why??? there is only one thing i can think of worth stealing and thats dynamis currency, given the success rate and considering what dynamis is i cant foresee the improvement having a high effect on stolen dynamis currency anyways.

you continuously ignore not only what we have requested in terms of adjustment but also how players actually play, this goes for everything i have said so far and will say, take a damn look at how players actually utilize/play the job before you think you know what needs adjusting.

/rant off

Example Adjustments
Adding a new ability that complements Sneak Attack and Trick Attack. => mildly interested to see what this means...

Raising the chances of successfully executing Steal and Despoil commensurate with Treasure Hunter. => see above...................

Adding a new ability that intimidates an enemy in proportion to the number of members in the party. => Why? just why?

Paladin Example Adjustments
Adding a new ability that reduces the amount of damage taken by a party member for one hit. => a kind of perfect defense type ability perhaps? seems interesting.

Adding a new ability that slows enmity reduction. => once again revamp the enmity system first for heck's seck.

Dark Knight Example Adjustments
A new ability that sacrifices TP gain to make attacks more powerful. => i honestly dont see this as being well received unless its actually potent.

A new ability that raises the amount of damage the dark knight takes, but also raises the amount of magic and elemental weapon skill damage it deals. => see my thief rant + you planing on revamping elemental weapon skills? without atma's they serve no purpose other then looking pretty, making this particular path another empty gesture for a job lacking love currently.

Beastmaster Example Adjustments
A new ability to call forth pets that, like the avatars Odin and Alexander, immediately use their characteristic ability then disappear. => see THF rant again + another useless gesture unless these one shot pets can be called with another pet already in play, bsts typically rely on thier pets to tank for them, a 1 shot pet would effectively be wasting time they could be using to call another real pet or charming something else, meanwhile they are still being beaten on.

Adding more pet-specific abilities.
Revising the effects of the Familiar ability.

these two are too unspecific for me to really comment on.

Bard Example Adjustments
Adding a new song that reduces enemy magic defense.
Revising enemy resistance to Foe Requiem. => wow... after so many years... still relatively minor adjustment.

Adding a new ability that increases the effectiveness of the next song sung. => this include buffs?

Ranger Example Adjustments
Adding the effect of Subtle Blow to ranged attacks that are unleashed from a suitable distance. => sounds good.

Adding an effect to ranged attacks from an enemy's side or back that reduces enmity. => finally a step in the right direction, but again fix the enmity system.

Adding an ability that increases enmity towards party members positioned between the ranger and his/her target. => sooo whats the point in thief again? not that im against this ranger could defiantly use an ability like this.

Samurai Example Adjustments
Adding an ability that increases accuracy and damage of weapon skills. => wasnt really aware we had a major acc problem, interested if the dammage boost will be noticable.

Adding an ability that augments the next weapon skill used with a TP bonus. => interesting but the unkai kote +2 already do this for sekkanoki, not that i wont welcome even more opportunity to take advantage of more TP bonus.

Ninja Example Adjustments
New abilities that make it possible to turn aside enemy attacks and abilities. => perhaps a perfect parry type ability? would be nice if you can actually gain parry skill ups off it if thats the case.

Adding a new ninjutsu that increases the effectiveness of one's own Store TP trait. => kinda cool but again with blurring of job boundaries, STP is more of a samurai thing, once again not against this just saying.

Dragoon Example Adjustments
Adding the effect of reducing magic resistance to certain wyvern breath attacks.

Adding an ability that makes wyverns more difficult to KO. => they didnt get a stout servant trait like automatons did?

Adding an effect to Jump, High Jump, and Super Jump that reduces enmity of the player behind the dragoon. => seems kind of interesting like an inverse thief, but nothing here really helps DRG with DD, not that they per say need it but they are still horribly under rated, need something to help them stand out more.

Summoner

I honestly have no idea what SMN's want curious to hear what kind of adjustments yall are interested in seeing, the blood pact delay one seems decent ish, kinda dubious about new avatars, last time they added the storyline avatars they were 1 trick ponies you could use once every 2 hours... though Alexander is freaking sweet. (give odin some love)


Blue Mage Example Adjustments
Adding new blue magic spells. => any new traits we can expect along with those new spells?

Additional HNM moves for the blue mage to learn. => just hope you dont gimp them too much (1k needles anybody?)

Corsair Example Adjustments
Allowing three phantom rolls to be in effect at the same time. => interesting idea however i can see this as gutting a corsair away from the DD circuit altogether though, with phantom rolls only lasting up to 6 min 40 seconds (max without gear augments) a cor is liable to be expected to constantly be applying mage/melee buffs would drastically reduce the amount of time they are either meleeing/shooting for TP may even limit them down to just QD unless thats your intention?

Further more typical DD buffs conflict with what a corsair would use for DD unless you finally give them a JA like the one bard got (damn cant remember the name now) corsairs will not only find themselves constantly buffing the party but also lacking in rolls that benfit them in the few moments they manage to find to DD.

Adding an ability that increases the effectiveness of phantom rolls.
Revising the potency of certain rolls. => not much to comment here as there is a lack of specification to speculate on.

Puppetmaster Example Adjustments
Introducing an assortment of new attachments. => See Thief rant + cool more attachments, what about AI issues, or better yet why not actually disclose what the hell tactical processor does? hell we dont even know if it works as intended. why should my maton cure my paralysis at 90% hp and 2 seconds later when im almost dead refuse to cure me? i understand there needs to be some kind of balance on how often they can cast but a single timer for all spells? come on...

Adding an ability that restores an automaton's HP.

Dancer Example Adjustments
Introducing an ability that consumes TP to imbue party members with the Regain effect.
Adding an ability that allows for a triple attack. => why not just give them all the TH gear and traits and delete thief already? dancers have higher DW and DD capabilities, thier JA's have synergy, they also already have most of the same traits evasion bonus, Crit attack bonus ect.

Scholar Example Adjustments
Adding spells which gradually reduce an enemy's TP or status enhancements. => meh, shouldn't this be more up RDM's alley? though i cant really think of better suggestions for SCH though, heh well not so much a functionality issue but would be nice if SCH weather effects could count towards elemental trials to a lesser credit, aka 1 objective completion vice 5.

Adding a spell that can be cast while under the effect of Tabula Rasa. => Ultima? would be weird to implement that though since its atypically non elemental, what skill would it employ? or perhaps it would be unresistant aka 100% macc? would seem a fitting spell for a SCH a devout researcher of both schools.

heh sorry for the long post but needed to get most of that off my chest.

[Tazz]

COR may finally get an update it needs and lets hope SCH can ga reraise or warp after this since they are aiming at making them 'absolute masters of their art' ! ! ! which should mean new tier of Cure as well!!! cure V YAY!!!!

"We wish for scholars to further their education in order to become absolute masters of their art, and the latter stages of their research will produce skills comparable to those of a white or black mage whose spells may take time to cast, but compensate with both the bliss and destruction they beget."

any blm with elemental celerity will ALWAYS cast before any SCH unless they use alacrity... so how do blm's 'take time to cast' . . . /sigh lol

anyways lots of goodies to look forward to still,
3 phantom rolls yay!!!

please add a single target roll for COR as well like pianissimo for BRD - would be very nice SE thanks!!

[Korpg]

please add a single target roll for COR as well like pianissimo for BRD - would be very nice SE thanks!!

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the recast time for Phantom Roll about one minute, and the rolls are on a global timer?

Wouldn't that suck for having a Pianissimo effect?

[Selzak]

I'm curious why jobs defined as "hybrid" jobs don't operate on stances to divide their capabilities. PLD and DRK have both consistently been the most confused jobs in application, despite being a couple of the most obvious jobs in what they're meant to be.

Both PLD and DRK should have a magical/support/survival stance, along with a melee/attack/offense stance.

While playing DRK (and I assume the same holds true for PLD), I feel like a have a ton of superfluous abilities and spells and none of them quite get the job done. Instead of having all of that fluff at once, the job should definitely be broken into two categories where a DRK is allowed to fit one role or the other, but now actually accomplish it well.

One stance should allow the DRK to play a support role and take care of itself against weaker enemies. Making Dread Spikes last longer (wouldn't hurt to nerf the spell beforehand), Stuns more readily available, and spells more useful in general while gaining a weak Refresh and Casting Time- along with a Store TP- and Weapon Delay+ or something. Could also lock out some abilities, like Souleater. This is the stance where Elemental Weapon Skills could surpass Physical Weapon Skills, where the Elemental Weapon Skills might gain a small boost and Physical Weapon Skills a noticeable decline in damage- perhaps through a reduction to Attack.

The other stance could focus on the small aspects of the job that are hurting its melee endeavors at the moment. Spells like Dread Spikes could be locked, and all spells could be given a longer recast time. Here the DRK should get a boost to Critical Attack Rate (the job screams critical attacks in the first place- it's supposed to deal spike damage)- this should definitely apply to Weapon Skills, since that's the priority. The idea with this stance is purely physical damage. The DRK could be required to stand anywhere but in front of the enemy for this stance (not meant to make it hit even harder against weaker opponents- the other stance is for soloing), and gain an enmity reduction to top the stance off and make it worth using in a party.

The 'solo' stance for PLD should allow it to dispatch enemies more readily, while the 'party' stance should grant it some form of damage reduction (or something) to make it on par (and possibly better, through magical damage reduction) with NIN.


I doubt it should be applied exactly as I posted, but I think the general idea (both for PLD and DRK) is necessary at this point. They seem to be getting jostled all over the place with random abilities that the players either do not want or can not use.