Job Adjustments manifesto Discussion

[TimeMage]

PUP: Fix the AI!! -nas shouldn't be prioritized over cures when a light maneuver is up and Damage Gauge is equiped.


SCH: The plague spell they may add better be quite potent, or it won't matter a bit: Absorb-TP from DRK has a recast of 1 min and I've seen it drain upwards of 100 TP on the attohwa boss. Let's assume that was a fluke and 60 TP is more reasonable: the minimum the plague spell had to do to be somewhat useful would be -3 TP/tick. Considering how Adloquium is only +1 TP/tick... somehow I doubt it u_u

There's also the mysterious Tabula Rasa only spell: It better be some awesome thing that is a good curaga and a potent nuke at the same time, or some stupid sh*t like that, because otherwise it would be a let down.

And, despite of what I said, I'm fairly optimistic about SCH. We don't really need new revolutionary spells and JAs to be again sought after. We need, however, to ride carefully the line that makes us almost as good as WHM and almost as good as BLM in our respective arts. Too much and we're stepping on other jobs toes, too little and we're not worth carrying around even taking into account our versatility. I think that the addition of one or two spells (mainly from white magic, specifically Cure V, even if it's nerfed somewhat) and tweaking up some of our existing ones (the animus spells and adloquium need their potency to vary with enhancing magic) we can be a good, useful, and competent job again.

[Laphine]

yeah, i was not talking about a staff ws specifically. My parenthesis reference was indeed towards energy drain/steal. My intention was to say if a mage has any ws that affect mp they will be more likely to use it. And whichever is best for that specific job or situation.

For some reason this discussion made me remember that, for those that have it, occult acumen would suddenly make much more sense too.

[Covenant]

Overall, the "Manifesto" was above average in my opinion. Unfortunately, without providing "Hard Numbers" many of the "Manifesto" idea seem underwhelming at this point in time.

In my opinion the one phrase that sent shivers of joy down was the whole,"...up to this point SE focused on balance between party members, and moving forward we'd like to "power up" each job"(to paraphrase).

This was one of the major themes of disappointment in my book, up to this point. Here we are approaching lvl 99 and still jobs are being held back for "balance" sake but not for level sake. SE bonus whether gear or /JA have always been lack luster for the most part. 30sec durations, decaying effects, bonuses of +5-8 per stat, etc. All seem weak in my opinion.

If one is worried about balance, if all jobs get overpowered EQUALLY, then their still in balance. Even with this overpowerness, players would still not approach the levels of some of the NM's and HNM's. Speaking about Summoners spirits lack of physical down, someone mentioned that the difference between a players spirit def and a mob elemental defense is something like "40/400 defense" in favor of mobs. That a regular mob, Not even NM. Mob MP pools are already infinite, and their HP are in the +10k range.

Playerd SHOULD feel like "...Demi-Gods". We've already faced Promathia, Bahamut, HNM's, "Sky Gods", "Sea-Gods", innumerable quests, we've saved nations in the present as well as past, unburying weapons and gear of legends...heck we've even faced a demented version of Shantoto and lived to tell the tale.

[Byrth]

Players who think this is just some theoretical thing they're tossing around in Japan should probably take a look at the video at the end of Spira's datamine.

Maybe they're still debating the exact mechanics, but the animations are made and on your computer.

[Cream_Soda]

I think that's going the wrong direction with monk, honestly.

Invigorate as it is only helps with solo. Even regen II is more powerful. Unless there's a plan to make it more powerful than mage regen, I don't see the point, as mage regen would always be preferred and honestly, there are better classes for soloing than monk. While it'd be nice, I wouldn't want to waste an update for something that's more geared towards solo.

As far as subtle blow goes, it's already incredibly easy for mnk to hit the cap and penance already reduces monster tp gain. I could see something like a stronger penance working very well, because that helps w/ TP fed from all of your group, but adding more subtle blow, that is only for the mnk himself, I feel is pointless, because it's already so easy to cap as it is now.

To expand on counter, though, it would be nice to see TP gain from countered attacks (i mean, even the enemy gets TP when you counter their attack) or possibly a higher level counterstance job trait, could say counterstance II for example, that's not stackable with the lower level version and is basically just an improved version for higher levels (for example, not reducing your defense to levels so low, the enemy's attack is always capped vs you).

I spoke of the regen effect of chakra, but did not of chakra itself. For Chakra, the HP returned is more than fine, provided you have a decent VIT build (which not very many mnks put their effort into, hence their low returns). That being said, it would be nice to see more ailments be removed with chakra, such as plague or doom. That, in my eyes, would be a very useful addition to chakra.

[Greatguardian]

To be fair, as far as Monk goes, our last "Manifesto" had us getting evasive stun type deals reminiscent of FF14 while we ended up getting Impetus.

[Malacite]

o. O Was that Stun II // Stunga I saw in that video?!

Also, not surprising there's a bunch of new stuff in there since the major update (lv 95 cap) is next month.

[Venat]

I would like more details on blue magic spells that are coming.

I would like to see BLU get a Parry boost ability.

This would be a somewhat support to the DEF of bluemages. Everyones been asking for a better Coccon but I think it would be better to add a Parry boost ability that you can use every 5mins.

Parry boost lasts 30secs

[Urteil]

I would like more details on blue magic spells that are coming.

I would like to see BLU get a Parry boost ability.

This would be a somewhat support to the DEF of bluemages. Everyones been asking for a better Coccon but I think it would be better to add a Parry boost ability that you can use every 5mins.

Parry boost lasts 30secs

BLU's asking for anything is downright disgusting.

Take your HNM spells and leave, while most of us stand here with our mouth agape horrified at SE's breach from reality.

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

Red Mage was "intended" to be a generalist that could fill in needed roles in parties while sporting some semblance of versatility. That fell flat on its face when refresh entered the game, which combined with the groups that were already desperate for healers did nothing but sling mud on our job.

Healing is often a needed role in a group. Melee on the other hand... there's how many jobs that melee better than RDM *and* don't have the choice of doing anything else? Melee is basically never something a group needs more of, and if they did, they wouldn't look at a RDM for it even if it meleed better than BLU (which, unlike RDM, has an A sword skill, but would still be not that great a melee if it didn't spend MP on spells to add more damage). That's why it's important for RDM to have the option of nuking or healing decently, and not so important for us to have the option of melee (in group situations).

RDM melee is more of a solo/small group thing than something that should be attempted against VT and up, and it's pretty much always been that way for higher level RDM. Even at lower levels RDM melee is more of a bonus than something you would actually invite the RDM for. This has been our core job design since launch (in fact, since before FFXI existed at all, to the extent that the jobs draw on earlier FFs such as FFV's job system), there's really no excuse for people to try to substitute their own concept of the job for the devs' and just say it's "supposed" to be that way.

This assumes we wanted to be shackled to healing.

I don't want to be "shackled" to healing, I want to have the OPTION of being an adequate healer if that is what the party/alliance needs. That's part of the versatility of RDM. Just like I want to have the option of nuking, or the option of enfeebling (on mobs that aren't immune). Enfeebling isn't very meaningful at the moment, but SE is showing some signs of wanting to improve that in future content.

A game with 20 jobs shouldn't have only 1 of them being capable of being a viable healer for a group. That's bad game design and is going to lead to either way too many people playing the same job and the others being neglected, a massive healer shortage, or both.

On the other hand, I agree with whoever posted upthread that RDM enhancing is kind of weak compared to the real enhancing kings, BRD and COR. Not that RDM enhancing is insignificant, but it's not exactly pivotal (especially when it's made redundant by the much stronger Abyssea buffs). Maybe it could be improved, but BRD or COR level enhancing tends to become the whole job, and I don't really want that for RDM either.

P.S. Have you played any other FF games? RDM has never been more than second-rate, at best, at melee. For years, their signature ability has been to cast more spells faster than other mages, never anything melee-related. In FFV, for example, RDM doesn't have a single learnable ability that improves physical damage. The actual DD jobs are getting things like Dual Wield, Boost (the FFV versions of both of those are *much* stronger), Barrage (works a little differently but insanely strong), Jump for double damage usable every attack round, etc. There is no viable RDM melee build -- at most, you can give them a melee-supporting ability from some *other* job to give them something to do that doesn't cost MP. IIRC, pretty much the same is true in FFIII. I have no idea where people got the idea that RDM were ever supposed to have first-rate melee abilities. First-rate melee jobs don't have a B in their primary weapon.