Why are we advertized as fighter-mages when White Mages can out-do us?

[Tamarsamar]

Too many people complain about White Mages outdoing us Red Mages in the healing department now, but quite frankly, that is how things should be.

How things shouldn't be, however, is that White Mages can also out-do us in the physical damage department. Now, I can understand when people warn to be cautious with the updates to give Red Mages more front-line prowess so that we don't end up out-stripping the usefulness of specialist jobs, but when we're not even easily out-doing White Mages, who aren't even front-line specialists . . . when we are at best the fifth-worst physical job in the game . . . then something drastic needs to be done.

The devs have been giving us subtle clues that they want us to use our Swords (the most recent example coming to mind is the use of a Red Mage to showcase the abilities of the Sagasinger); I say drop the subtlety and let it stand out so blatantly that even others would no longer argue against a Red Mage's spot on the front lines!

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Because after RDM was soloing everything in the beginning of the game SE got the view it was too powerful, now even though we are stripped of 90% of the melee gear we'd have previously been able to wear, almost all out JA's and Spells, SE still feel giving any kind of actual buff to a RDM would put them at over-powered again.

So instead they seem to be on the focus of WHM being a melee healer-mage, with BLU being The Melee-nuker mage with a touch of great healing power too.

[Hyrist]

>.>

You have to take the whole perspective and ignore the stereotyping.

We have superior survivability, and a better nuking game than White Mages.

The major thing that gives White Mages their melee game on, is Blessed set. Its not as if their melee gear has improved since 05 much either. And truth be told, any improvements they've received in that department, we have gotten the same or better.

It's just that White Mage has better ease of access to their stronger Weapon Skills and Haste Gear than Red Mages. And Clubs tend to be better 1h weapons than swords when haste gets factored in. That said, don't make the 'better' presumption based off of DoT, Enspells make up for the raw physical damage clubs have. It's Weapon Skills that really separate the two. We don't get anything truly comparable naively except for Evisceration on dagger until CDC.

Beyond that, it's just easier. RDM and WHM fully melee geared dukeing it out side by side are still going to be pretty even with each other. But try finding a fully melee geared RDM.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Doesn't help there is not enough inventory space for a properly, fully geared RDM. You have enough to hold it all in the Satchels, Sacks, Lockers etc.... but not enough to make full use by switching gear on the fly for all of RDM's roles. That mixed with the lack of utility RDM has such as (no ga buff's) an Accession style JA would have been good for RDM but SCH has that now.

The same is true of jobs like BLU only they have help in the buffs they get on the eAF for example.

[Supersun]

Beyond that, it's just easier. RDM and WHM fully melee geared dukeing it out side by side are still going to be pretty even with each other. But try finding a fully melee geared RDM.

Only if the Rdm has CDC though...

[ManaKing]

Only if the Rdm has CDC though...

Pfft, 90 isn't too late for a job to be good at what it used to be good at. That is just crazy talk. Clearly RDM is OP and needs further nerfs. We should only be able to wear cloth and we shouldn't have any skill in sword or daggers.

I mean a RDM having fun in a party and being taken seriously is obviously not accepted based on the amount of people I have to go toe to toe with on a daily basis. But seriously guys, if we get good gear and actually can be effective, how are other jobs going to be able to get away with being verbally abusing to us? If RDM isn't at the bottom of the barrel, who are we going to be debasing?

/end sarcasm.

[Ketaru]

Pfft, 90 isn't too late for a job to be good at what it used to be good at. That is just crazy talk.

At this point of the game where only the end result matters and levels are meant to be steamrolled through, it isn't exactly nonsense either.

I like to think that I have accepted RDM's situation and have embraced the job for what it is. It is an enfeebler, it can heal some, it can nuke some. And, if you find yourself in a situation where you really, really have to melee, it can do that too.

But what I still cannot accept is the mixed messages the people behind the game continue to send about the job. They've given us an Empyrean armor set that is excellent for our magical capabilities, yet the name "Estoqueur" literally translates to "swordsman".

We cannot use one of the few decent magical damage weaponskills that are available in the game without conditional subjobs (despite the fact that, among all the jobs that are capable of using it, we are most capable of using it to its fullest potential).

Whenever the job is presented in promotional material, it is also as a frontline unit.

They even sometimes fit the job into nice frontline gear, like Atheling Mantle or Calmecac Trousers.

I would more readily say I accept that the job is just not cut out to be hybrid melee mage that it's purported to be. If only SE would stop sending out mixed messages about it...That's not fair to the people who still have faith that they will do something about. It's not fair to the people who want to have an honest discussion about what the job actually is. And it's not fair to the people actually thinking of playing it.

[Duelle]

Doesn't help there is not enough inventory space for a properly, fully geared RDM. You have enough to hold it all in the Satchels, Sacks, Lockers etc.... but not enough to make full use by switching gear on the fly for all of RDM's roles.

Maybe I've been spoiled by games where you don't need to switch entire sets of gear to be able to do anything, but the above quote is a clear sign that RDM is in dire need of streamlining in some way, shape or form.

@OP: Your sig makes sense. I would probably play off the fact that the bonus is really useful but has a rather ridiculous condition to trigger the effect.

On topic, I wholeheartedly agree. It makes no sense, and indeed needs to be fixed.

[Tamarsamar]

@OP: Your sig makes sense. I would probably play off the fact that the bonus is really useful but has a rather ridiculous condition to trigger the effect.

It's more referring to the fact that they made the job trait "Fencer" and distinctly refused to give it to us.

----

Concerning the argument that we nuke better than White Mages . . . er, I'd sure hope that we did! That's hardly any consolation for them both besting us in melee while blowing us out of the water in healing, at any rate.

Honestly, the devs need to start taking Red Mages in a more solid direction. Do they want us to use Swords just like in the promotional videos? If so, then they need to start backing it up more seriously: physical Job Traits (SUCH AS FENCER HINT HINT), more frequent access to good front line equipment (like they currently do with Blue Mages), the whole nine yards! If not, they might as well edit out every single association of Red Mages with Swords in the game, and re-writing our job description as simply someone who can use White and Black Magic. They might as well re-name the job, while they're at it! How about something like Scholar?

[ManaKing]

Lol i say the same thing. I dont know why people back line as RDM when they could be playing SCH. That being said, if you find RDM more comfortable/fun than SCH, then so be it.

I do have friends that play RDM as backline only. We don't bicker about which one of us is right. I let her have her fun, and she doesn't get in the way of mine either. I actually picked up COR for her because I noticed that COR Quickshot and RDM enfeebles were meant to be best-ies.