The real problem with PLD

[Greatguardian]

Gear is only going to do so much if you're trying to take hits on PLD/WAR anyways.

There really is a reason that no one (who knew what they were using) used WAR sub on more than 1-2 mobs in the entire game post-70.

[Nawesemo]

Cover!!! Can I have it? Can I find a pld that don't blow his sentinel, for no apparent reason, and one that can use flash effectively instead of spam it? And don't get me started on the ones who refuse to cure themselves and scream "cure vi can I have it?". Sitting on 490/490 mp,,....... I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say ya just never seen it done right yo!!!!!

[Bumbeen]

Pld have their own provoke it's called cure. What other subs do you want to try? You should be using the sub that has you taking the least amount of damage on hard shit. Less damage taken = more enmity retained = a better tank.

[Vagrua]

Pld have their own provoke it's called cure. What other subs do you want to try? You should be using the sub that has you taking the least amount of damage on hard shit. Less damage taken = more enmity retained = a better tank.

Well:

/MNK comes with hp boost/Subtle Blow III/Chakra/Dodge/Focus/Counter

/BLU comes with Heat butt/Blitzstrahl/Cocoon/Metallic Body/Auto Regen/Beast Killer/Lizard Killer

/DRG comes with Jumps and Conserve TP

/DNC comes with Violent flourish/Evasion bonus II/Subtle Blow II/Healing Waltz/Curing Waltz

/COR comes with Resist Paralyze III/Monk's or Evoker's roll

/THF comes with Treasure Hunter II/ Resist Gravity II/Gilfinder/Flee/SA TA

/BRD comes with Resist Silence III/Mage's Ballad

/SMN comes with Resist Slow II/ Auto Refresh/Mp boost from setting sub

/SAM comes with Resist Blind III/Demon Killer/Store TP II/Zanshin/ Meditate/Third Eye/ Sekkanoki

/BST comes with Charm/Wide Scan/Amorph Killer/Lizard Killer/Bird Killer/Vermin Killer

The way I see it, you could adjust your subjob to fit many different scenarios if paladin was given provoke as an ability

[Greatguardian]

Er, what does lack of Provoke have to do with Paladin being unable to sub those jobs? Provoke is just an 1800VE ability on a 30 second timer. Paladin has absolutely 0 issue capping Enmity right now, and really never has if the Paladin in question knew what they were doing.

[Vagrua]

Er, what does lack of Provoke have to do with Paladin being unable to sub those jobs? Provoke is just an 1800VE ability on a 30 second timer. Paladin has absolutely 0 issue capping Enmity right now, and really never has if the Paladin in question knew what they were doing.

People are in the mindset that PLD, without provoke, can't keep hate which is why you see plds only /war mostly. If they had provoke, then they might open their mind to trying other subs. IMO /BLU or /DNC are great subs for PLD. /MNK has its uses too as do other jobs I mentioned, but you only ever see people /war or /nin mostly. At least that is how it is on Bahamut.

[Greatguardian]

Those people are generally just idiots then, sorry to say. /WAR is pretty useless on PLD, and Provoke is a trivial amount of Enmity at best in the big picture. 1800VE is pretty minimal =/ and in a vacuum environment equates to 0 net Enmity gain over time. Of course, in practice, it essentially amounts to halting your VE loss over time, which is still really not so hot.

I typically Pld/Nin because it's the most sensible way to tank while avoiding taking damage, while leaving the option open to Dual Wield in any situation where a shield is overkill. There are occasions where Pld/Rdm and/or Pld/Blu become more viable, for sure. Pld/Mnk is an interesting choice as well, though I'd imagine it works out about the same as anything/MNK these days. But there's really nothing in practice that's stopping people from using these subs now for whatever effect they have. The only thing stopping most people is a complete lack of understanding of how Enmity works and a fairly ridiculous obsession with Provoke.

[Winrie]

Those people are generally just idiots then, sorry to say. /WAR is pretty useless on PLD, and Provoke is a trivial amount of Enmity at best in the big picture. 1800VE is pretty minimal =/ and in a vacuum environment equates to 0 net Enmity gain over time. Of course, in practice, it essentially amounts to halting your VE loss over time, which is still really not so hot.

I typically Pld/Nin because it's the most sensible way to tank while avoiding taking damage, while leaving the option open to Dual Wield in any situation where a shield is overkill. There are occasions where Pld/Rdm and/or Pld/Blu become more viable, for sure. Pld/Mnk is an interesting choice as well, though I'd imagine it works out about the same as anything/MNK these days. But there's really nothing in practice that's stopping people from using these subs now for whatever effect they have. The only thing stopping most people is a complete lack of understanding of how Enmity works and a fairly ridiculous obsession with Provoke.

And thats all that needs to be said ladies and gentleman, lock this thread now.
Dead old subject is still dead and old.

[Bumbeen]

I thought pld/war died in 2006 o_o;;;;;

[Greatguardian]

If SE were to do that, I would make sure never to bring a Paladin to anything aside from Voidwatch ever (well, I do that now for the most part, but I'd be even more careful).

Simply put, on weaker NMs/mobs, Paladin takes more damage than quite a few other jobs that deal significantly more damage. On stronger NMs/mobs, Paladin has absolutely 0 issue capping and maintaining capped hate. So really, it wouldn't reap any tangible benefits, and would doubly serve to ostracize Paladin against weaker NMs/mobs.

I'm not sure where in the world people are getting this idea that Paladin is unable to generate Enmity, or has issues capping hate. They don't. It's simply a matter of them slowing the group down both via opportunity cost, and by causing the NM to look away from the Counter-spamming Monk or Retaliating Warrior.